# PRove evolution right, or wrong. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 2, 2002, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969 "2002-08-02T03:45:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fox\_Moxin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@Fox\_Moxin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fox_Moxin)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/1 "2002-08-02T03:45:21Z")
I’, sure everyone here is familiar with Jack Chick. well, here are some of his works regarding his view on the “Facts” of evolution. Now i don’t personally believe a word he says, but i’m no scientist. how do i refute his examples? [http://www.chick.com/catalog/posters/poster.asp](http://www.chick.com/catalog/posters/poster.asp) [http://www.chick.com/catalog/comics/0106.asp](http://www.chick.com/catalog/comics/0106.asp) [http://www.chick.com/reading/books/174/evolvex.asp](http://www.chick.com/reading/books/174/evolvex.asp) [http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055\_01.asp](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055_01.asp) That last one is the good one. Just try and prove, or disprove his arguments. thats all i ask. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/2 "2002-08-02T03:55:53Z")
Why? Jack Chick is an idiot. Do a search on the name, you’ll find tons to read. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/3 "2002-08-02T03:57:30Z")
If you’d post some specific arguments that you want disproved, it would help a lot. A bunch of URL’s and no discussion doesn’t go over all that well here. That said, here’s right back at ya: [http://www.talkorigins.org](http://www.talkorigins.org). Search there on anything you want to know about. And now for something completely different… The fact is, no one can prove evolution, or any other scientific theory, to be correct. There’s always another theory that could be right, or predicts a certain subset of the data more accurately, or what have you. On the other hand, one repeatable reading would be enough to invalidate the whole theory. That’s the way science is. However, the evidence for evolution of some kind is that it’s been studied for roughly 130 years, and no one’s managed to disprove it. And just cause I know this is gonna come up, let’s talk about facts and theories. A fact is a statement of the way things are. A theory is a statement about why things are the way they are. Most often, theories are a statement about how something works. “Most people see the sky as blue” is a statement of fact. “People see the sky as blue due to atmospheric scattering” is a theory. Does that make sense? ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/4 "2002-08-02T04:00:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fox\_Moxin \* > **That last one is the good one.** That last one is crap. As are all the others. I would suggest, as a good starting place, the obligatory [Talkorigins](http://www.talkorigins.org/) site for prime debunking material. As Jack Chick tracts make my teeth itch from reading them, if there’s anything in particular you’d like to see refuted, feel free to ask. There are several here who could make short work of Chick’s dubious science. ---
**Author:** ![Fox\_Moxin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@Fox\_Moxin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fox_Moxin)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/5 "2002-08-02T04:04:02Z")
Hmm… specifically i was refering to the arguments he used. but i suppose a bit more is in order. how about this, his examples on his evolution poster. ©1973 by Jack T. Chick This 2½ foot long poster from the two middle pages in BIG DADDY? uses humor and facts to show the foolishness of evolution. Exposes the truth about Heidelberg man, Piltdown man and others. Teens love it! View poster in larger format - (179K) Text From Poster Above (Left to Right) Heidelberg Man - Built from a jaw bone that was conceded by many to be quite human. Nebraska Man - Scientifically built up from one tooth and later found to be the tooth of an extinct pig. Piltdown Man - The jawbone turned out to belong to a modern ape. Peking Man - 500,000 years old. All evidence has disappeared. Neanderthal Man - At the Int’l Congress of Zoology (1958) Dr. A. J. E. Cave Said his examination showed that the famous Neanderthal skeleton found in France over 50 years ago is that of an old man who suffered from arthritis. Cro-Magnon Man - One of the earliest and best established fossils is at least equal in physique and brain capacity to modern man…so what’s the difference? Modern Man - This genius thinks we came from a monkey. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools - Romans 1:22 hows that? Sorry for the annoyance, kinda new here ^\_^; ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/6 "2002-08-02T04:08:39Z")
[Here is a good site](http://www.modernhumanorigins.com/) with lots of useful info on human origins and evolution. And [here is another](http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/primate.html). Chick’s version of human evolution is a fantasy made up by, and only adhered to by, creationists. ---
**Author:** ![p\_cific\_812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@p\_cific\_812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/p_cific_812)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/7 "2002-08-02T04:51:04Z")
[Here](http://www.punkerslut.com/critiques/chick/bigdaddy.html) is a particularly meticulous deconstruction of Chick’s **Big Daddy**. I found it insightful. Enjoy. (Incidentally, this is not my website nor do I know the publisher. If you don’t appreciate the content, don’t tell _me_ about it. :)) ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/8 "2002-08-02T04:58:56Z")
Alright, a chance to use my signature. It is almost never appropriate. Note: Darwin’s ship was the H.M.S. Beagle ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/9 "2002-08-02T05:08:38Z")
My question is why is that tract called “Big Daddy?”? Has anyone addressed that? ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/10 "2002-08-02T05:17:21Z")
[minor aside] > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by p@cific@812 \* > **[Here](http://www.punkerslut.com/critiques/chick/bigdaddy.html) is a particularly meticulous deconstruction of Chick’s Big Daddy. I found it insightful. Enjoy.** From the link: > [@](#): > > For example, below Piltdown Man, it stated, “The jawbone turned out to belong to a modern ape,” – where is the evidence of this claim? Looks like the author could benefit from some [research](http://www.unmuseum.org/piltdown.htm) himself. [/minor aside] ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/11 "2002-08-02T05:19:39Z")
> [@](#): > > My question is why is that tract called “Big Daddy?”? Well, the title page of “Big Daddy” shows an ape with an evil leer on his face, and the title next to it asks, ironically, “Big Daddy?” Meaning, “Were we descended from apes?” That’s this link. [http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055\_01.asp](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055_01.asp) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/12 "2002-08-02T05:20:26Z")
OK, I’ll bite: **Heidelberg Man - Built from a jaw bone that was conceded by many to be quite human.** [http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/mauer.html](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/mauer.html) **Nebraska Man - Scientifically built up from one tooth and later found to be the tooth of an extinct pig.** One of the great and persistent lies of certain Creationists. The tooth was, indeed, that of a pig. Pigs and humans have quite similar molars. The tooth was correctly examined and reclassified as a pig’s tooth fewer than nine months after it was discovered. No paleontologist ever tried to establish that it was from an ancestor to humanity. (When it was first reported, a magazine printing the story of the early speculation that it _might_ be human included an “artists rendering” of a “possible” cave man, but that was purely literary (not scientific) speculation. Still, Chick and company continue to lie that it was a “error” of evolutionary science.) **Piltdown Man - The jawbone turned out to belong to a modern ape.** Piltdown man was a deliberate fraud and was generally _not_ accepted by the paleontological community even before the fraud was exposed. Most scientists expressed severe reservations regarding the placement of that jaw and that skull. **Peking Man - 500,000 years old. All evidence has disappeared.** Peking Man is _homo erectus_ of which over 100 examples exist. During WWII, the specific bones called “Peking” disappeared (the perils of war). Creationists like to hint darkly that they were destroyed or hidden, but the truth is more mundane. The bones had already been photographed and categorized and they certainly match the other examples of _homo erectus_. [http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/peking.html](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/peking.html) \*\*Neanderthal Man - At the Int’l Congress of Zoology (1958) Dr. A. J. E. Cave Said his examination showed that the famous Neanderthal skeleton found in France over 50 years ago is that of an old man who suffered from arthritis. \*\* Another Creationist smoke and mirrors claim. Some early discoveries of Neandertal had suffered bone diseases (although the original claim on that point is in error) and made it into the popular imagination as the hunchbacked “cave men”. However, the distinction between _Homo sapiens sapiens_ and _Homo sapiens neandertalensis_ is based on the skull and other features not associated with the curved spine. The two are clearly different–and there are a lot more Neandertal skeletons than that are not diseased. [http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/a\_neands.html](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/a_neands.html) \*\*Cro-Magnon Man - One of the earliest and best established fossils is at least equal in physique and brain capacity to modern man…so what’s the difference? \*\* There is no difference. Cro-Magnon is recognized by all reputable paleontologists as _Homo sapiens sapiens_. So what is Chick’s point? ---
**Author:** ![p\_cific\_812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@p\_cific\_812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/p_cific_812)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/13 "2002-08-02T05:30:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Darwin’s Finch \* > \*\*Looks like the author could benefit from some [research](http://www.unmuseum.org/piltdown.htm) himself… \*\* A glaring flaw in the critique by any standard. Thank you for calling it to my attention. ---
**Author:** ![p\_cific\_812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@p\_cific\_812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/p_cific_812)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/14 "2002-08-02T05:34:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\* > **Piltdown Man - The jawbone turned out to belong to a modern ape.** > Piltdown man was a deliberate fraud and was generally _not_ accepted by the paleontological community even before the fraud was exposed. Most scientists expressed severe reservations regarding the placement of that jaw and that skull. > \*\* Yeah, what **tom** said. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/15 "2002-08-02T11:31:53Z")
Ugh. Reading through that last link gave me hives. Ad Hominem, anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/16 "2002-08-02T14:43:51Z")
Seem all the creartionists lies before. Ask Jack Chick about Duane Gish’s bullfrog. It will be a riot. ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/17 "2002-08-02T14:49:00Z")
Here’s [something](http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~lindsay/creation/polystrate.html)on “polystrate trees” (trees found cutting through more than one strata layer. ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/18 "2002-08-02T15:10:17Z")
Here’s [something](http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~lindsay/creation/polystrate.html)on “polystrate trees” (trees found cutting through more than one strata layer. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/19 "2002-08-02T15:35:24Z")
The Paluxy River tracks are another creationist favourite; here’s a bit about them: [http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2437/paluxy.htm](http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2437/paluxy.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969/20 "2002-08-02T16:26:15Z")
Perhaps this could be called a hijack, but here goes anyway. I sense a lot of negativity against creationists by the posters in this thread. I know that I don’t particularly care for Jack Chick’s opinions and little comic strips. He doesn’t speak for all of us (certainly not for me). But I must ask, why the negativity against creationist thought? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-evolution-right-or-wrong/121969.md?page=2)