# Prove that red is a color **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 6, 2003, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184 "2003-02-06T13:15:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/21 "2003-02-06T15:54:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Prove that a turtle is “Any of various aquatic or terrestrial reptiles of the order Testudines (or Chelonia), having horny toothless jaws and a bony or leathery shell into which the head, limbs, and tail can be withdrawn in most species.” Well, I could pass around a series of T or ~T objects, note which ones get classifed as 'T’s, and then infer that all Ts were aquatic or terrestrial reptiles of the order Testudines (or Chelonia), having horny toothless jaws and a bony or leathery shell. Can you do the same with examples of G? (Or give evidence that G is possible?) ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/22 "2003-02-06T16:18:05Z")
I grew up with a guy named “Red”. It’s not that he was Irish, but rather that he’d finished a book. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/23 "2003-02-06T16:24:52Z")
[sub]This is actually an old Rabbi joke but it will do.[/sub] Rabbi: Shalom Libertarian! What brings you to the temple? Libertarian: Greetings Rabbi! You are the wisest man I know. My mind is unsettled and my heart is heavy with a terrible dilemma. Simply put, I cannot prove red is a color. Rabbi: Excuse me? Libertarian: It’s true. Definitions do not have truth value. They are neither true nor false. They are not logical propositions — they are definitions.They don’t imply anything. They don’t prove anything. They’re not provable. A word and its definition form a tautology. Have you ever read a geometry book? Terms are defined. Period. THERE ARE NO PROOFS OF THE DEFINITIONS. The proofs use the definitions to begin a chain of inference that ends with a conclusion. Rabbi: Well that is a conundrum… let me think as to how best answer this deep question. The Rabbi leans forward in his chair and suddenly hits Libertarian in the nose. Libertarian yelps in pain and holds his nose which is now bleeding profusely. The Rabbi hands him a few Kleenex. Rabbi: Red is the color of the spots on that Kleenex. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/24 "2003-02-06T17:31:26Z")
From the link: > [@](#): > > _originally posted by Libertarian_ > **With respect to your beef about the definition, Christopher McHugh wrote a paper dealing with Michael Martin’s criticisms of Hartshornes original argument.** I believe your OP in this thread contradicts the quoted post. If it is indeed valid that definitions are not a physicalacially provable object, but rather a linguisticalismizationary artificialionalist construnctionalism of the form bone(T)=USDA’~grainfed, then **Sentientmeat’s** point would obviously not be of the physicalality plane, it would possess a subset of zero kilocalories, and would contain no cattle flesh as the word “beef” implies. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/25 "2003-02-06T22:47:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > **Who asked anything about its existence? I’m talking about proving definitions.** So does this mean you concede your “proof” is about proving the validity of a _definition_ of God and has nothing whatsoever to do with proving the _actual real world existence_ of God, the which has eluded better minds than either of ours for thousands of years? ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/26 "2003-02-07T01:04:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robertliguori \* > \*\*(Or give evidence that G is possible?) \*\* I am addressing this to you specifically, but there are plenty more who seem to need some reminding. [The _a priori_.](http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/a/apriori.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/27 "2003-02-07T01:09:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Xploder \* > \*\*Man…you sure do get your panties in a wad over nothing… \*\* Prove that panties are a clothing item Prove that a wad is a wad Prove that nothing is something 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/28 "2003-02-07T01:37:17Z")
Prove that proof is proof. (Hell. Now Lib will collapse to a logical singularity and I’ll be pulled in by tidal forces.) Logical/philosophical Pit rants never fail to get me in an odd mood. 😃 (BTW, I think I’ve just rediscovered slolipsism, aka navel-gazing. :D) ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/29 "2003-02-07T02:59:04Z")
Of course, if it is just you, did you ever “_ **really** _” forget it? 😃 😃 😃 ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/30 "2003-02-07T03:24:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > \*\*I’m not sure if this is even related but I was reading a book on paradoxes recently and in it they had colors. The thing about them was this, at what point on the color spectrum is “red” red, and at what point is “orange” a different color, distinct from red. Sort of like the old “heaps” paradox. \*\* Although I don’t have a cite, it is accepted in photography and the graphic arts industry that the components of white light are “additive primary colors” consisting of red, green and blue. Mixing these in pairs result in “subtractive primary colors”, those being magenta, yellow, and cyan. Therefore, red has to exist, or everyone who has done color photographic processing from George Eastman on down to the shlub in his darkroom at home is 1/3 short of the equation. If you disagree, please return to the Rabbi for further enlightment. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/31 "2003-02-07T03:43:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spooje \* > \*\*I suck. \*\* Me too. ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Phoenix\_Dragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phoenix_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/32 "2003-02-07T04:11:33Z")
Man, I feel cheated. First time getting pitted, and it’s a loony, irrational, off-the-wall, berserker lame rant about _this_? It’s pathetic. It’s disgracefull. And while we’re at it… Lib? Bite me 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/33 "2003-02-07T10:10:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Bite me Prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/34 "2003-02-07T10:23:14Z")
[Muppet]This rant has been brought to you by the colour red.[/Muppet] ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/35 "2003-02-07T12:33:26Z")
“Bite me” is an imperative statement, not a factual one. Nothing to prove. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/36 "2003-02-07T13:14:14Z")
> [@](#): > > But if I have constructed, in my mind, a temple which I desire to build, and infer from the description of it that I must buy such and such a site and so many thousand stones and other materials, will any sane person tell me that I have drawn a wrong conclusion because my definition is possibly untrue? or will anyone ask me to prove my definition? Such a person would simply be telling me, that I had not conceived that which I had conceived, or be requiring me to prove, that I had conceived that which I had conceived; in fact, evidently trifling. Benedict de Spinoza, in a letter to Simon de Vries. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/37 "2003-02-07T14:12:17Z")
A temple is a building constructed of marmalade, in which tubas dance around, playing oldies and telling off-color jokes, and in which up is down and down is up. Such is my definition of a temple. To build my temple, therefore, I will need three hundred tons of marmalade and forty tubas (fifty tubas, if I want it to be especially swingin’). Will any sane person tell me that I have drawn a wrong conclusion because my definition is possibly untrue? or will anyone ask me to prove my definition? Alternately, a temple is a nonbuilding, which has not spatial form and no temporal being, which no one can visit, see, touch, or otherwise sense, and which either must exist or does not exist. Since there is no reason that this temple cannot exist, it must exist. Will any sane person tell me that I have drawn a wrong conclusion because my definition is possibly untrue? or will anyone ask me to prove my definition? I don’t know whether Spinoza would appreciate being attached to this argument. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/38 "2003-02-07T14:31:37Z")
> [@](#): > > “Nothing therefore happens in nature which is contrary to its universal laws. Nor does anything happen which does not agree with those laws or does not follow from them. For whatever happens, happens by God’s will and eternal decree, that is…whatever happens according to rules which involve eternal necessity and truth.” Spinoza: _Theological-Political Treatise_ Modus Operandi has nothing to do with it afterall. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/39 "2003-02-07T14:39:08Z")
Philosphr, you are my new hero. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184/40 "2003-02-07T14:43:02Z")
you still haven’t proved your ass is red, much less an ass… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-red-is-a-color/153184.md?page=3)