# Prove that the earth is 6,000 years old **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 23, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295 "2003-07-23T02:25:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/41 "2003-07-24T20:34:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dob \* > \*\*anyone help me out here? \*\* [SDSTAFF David replies:](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbigbangmyth.html) ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/42 "2003-07-24T20:52:32Z")
Thanks! answers my question! ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/43 "2003-07-24T21:05:07Z")
Hi **Dob**. Anything to help out a fellow denizen of the Old Dominion. The best place I know to find reasonable discussion of these questions is [www.talkorigins.org](http://www.talkorigins.org) . [Here’s a bit on thermodynamics](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/thermo.html). [Another bit on the recession of the moon](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/moonrec.html). Regarding the retrograde motion (rotation) of some of our planets, I don’t think anyone has a decent explanation for Venus yet. But that’s the key word: _yet_. It would be very silly to point at Venus and say, “yep, there’s yer proof o’ God right there–now stop looking at it.” ---
**Author:** ![Merriman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merriman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merriman)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/44 "2003-07-24T21:44:46Z")
With regards to Dob’s question, I have a question of my own. If a disc is spinning clockwise, and you flip it upside down (or more to the point, if a different observer is upside down with respect to you), it’s now spinning counter, right? So, spin just depends on your point of view. If some balls of rock are spinning in different directions, well, maybe some got turned upside down, or like SDstaff David wrote, maybe they got hit with another rock. Besides, I agree with pravnik (lol). Just count the rings to find out how old Earth is! I had a professor tell me once that the book of Genesis (and a lot of the Old Testament) is Hebrew poetry. These writings aren’t necessarily to be taken literally, right? Adam (‘man’) coming from Adamah (‘earth’) and all that? A poem, to me, explains this crazy world about as well as Big Bang, if you ask me. That is to say, it’s an attempt at knowing the unknowable. Thanks for your time, folks. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/45 "2003-07-24T21:48:10Z")
> [@](#): > > A poem, to me, explains this crazy world about as well as Big Bang, if you ask me. That is to say, it’s an attempt at knowing the unknowable. Thanks for your time, folks. I’d argue that 1) the Big Bang isn’t an attempt to explain “this crazy world,” it’s about the consistency and development of the universe, and 2) I’m not sure how it qualifies as “unknowable,” given that it’s a theory based on science and things that we already know and are learning more about by the day. I’d agree, however, that - whatever the intent of its author - it would be flat-out foolish to take the Bible literally. ---
**Author:** ![Merriman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merriman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merriman)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/46 "2003-07-24T22:01:14Z")
Marley23, what I meant was that we can only guess at what happens on a cosmic level based on what we define as evidence. I happen to agree with the Big Bang theory, and with evolutionary theory, because they are just that: theories that explain based on current data. It would be unwise to assume we’ve finally arrived at the explanations, because only 100 years ago, Maxwell’s equations were thought to be the final answer to fundamental forces, and then came the ultraviolet catastrophe. Then came quantum, then QED, and QCD, and strings, and supersymmetric strings, now M-theory, blah blah blah. All I’m saying is, maybe the earth is 6000 years old, and maybe it’s 4 billion. But I don’t think we are much farther along than the ancient Hebrews were. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/47 "2003-07-24T22:25:46Z")
> [@](#): > > All I’m saying is, maybe the earth is 6000 years old, and maybe it’s 4 billion. But I don’t think we are much farther along than the ancient Hebrews were. Yeah, that’s what I’m disagreeing with. Obviously any theory can be wrong, and past theories like the ones you mention have been. However, we actually have a methodology for dealing with these problems and - despite implications to the contrary - have made what I would say is a fantastic amount of progress on some very hard questions. And again, while any theory can be incorrect, our theories are based on evidence, which is more than I’d say about the Biblical account of creation, which is an attempt to explain the world in a way that fit the pre-existing beliefs of the observers. We’ve gone through numerous theories of the history of the Earth and the universe, however, the ones you mention have all been revised, changed or discarded upon further scientific inquiry. That’s science at work. That’s not true of the Genesis story. It’s changed a bit based on interpretations of the wording, but science doesn’t seem to affect it much. Much of it is demonstrably false if you take it at face value. If you prefer that it is metaphor or poetry, then it doesn’t really apply to science in the first place. What evidence does that version of creation really have behind it? The fact that the religions that espouse it are the most popular in the world. That’s about it. I’d argue that if history had been different, we could be having the same argument about the Hindu version of this story, or any Native American one. And we’d have the same lack of evidence. Also, despite what you say, the theories of Evolution and the Big Bang are regarded as proven true based on the mass of evidence in their favor and the lack of competing theories and data. They’ve been revised over the years and will continue to be, I’m sure. You seem to be mistaking a theory in the scientific sense with a guess. If you seriously think it is equally likely that the Earth is 6,000 years old as it is 4 billion, I’d question your sanity. Evolution and the Big Bang are theories. Young Earth is a belief and nothing else, especially given the abuses of science that are the trademark of its proponents. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/48 "2003-07-24T22:28:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\ ***Mr. Blue Sky** , why don’t you articulate your own argument instead of simply linking to a creationist website. It’s not fair to expect the OP to waste time with a comprehensive debunking of an entire site. Post your own argument or at least paraphrase what you believe are some of the strongest arguments from your site. A succession of dueling links would make for a boring thread. \*\* Sigh… [How about a link to a recent MPSIMS thread in which I originally mentioned the site I referenced in an attempt to start the same discussion. There. Happy?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196229) ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/49 "2003-07-24T22:33:46Z")
[ul]😕 [sup] **I thought it was a lot older than 6,000-10,000 years.** [/sup][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Merriman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merriman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merriman)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/50 "2003-07-25T00:37:58Z")
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” -Albert Einstein ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/51 "2003-07-25T01:20:43Z")
**Counting Varves** Find a lake near snow caped mountains and note and measure the accumalation of summer snow melt sedimentary deposits into the lake bottom of one year. Core drill and count these banded seasonal clay markers back through time to past six thousand years ago. \*\* Limestone Caves\*\* The acidic water that enlarges caves by hydrolic flow beneath local water tables have a fixed saturation point that allows computation of minimum flow rates back through time. Measure the volume of removed rock and you can establish minimun ages for these caves. Most big caves would require much much more time for development that 6,000 years. **etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc,etc.etc.** Just about the all of what we know about earth science demands many millions of years of development. Biblical time doesn’t conflict with this lengthy dating. If you think it does you probably should rethink your understanding of spiritual beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/52 "2003-07-25T01:35:21Z")
> [@](#): > > “Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” -Albert Einstein I greatly Albert Einstein’s wisdom and his work. However, I respectfully submit that in my experience, religious science is one of the great oxymorons man has ever invented. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/53 "2003-07-25T01:37:07Z")
Unfortunately, all these methods are logical. I have found that, for the most part, religion and logic aren’t on speaking terms. For those who believe the 6,000 year theory to be, shall I say it, gospel, nothing anyone can say or show will change their minds. Any “factual information” you can provide will be dismissed as lies and tricks. Check out Robert Heinlein’s Job: A Comedy of Justice. ---
**Author:** ![Nomadic\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/858c86/32.png) [@Nomadic\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nomadic_One)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/54 "2003-07-25T02:38:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Minor nitpick: According to Jewish tradition, it is 5763 years since Adam, not since Creation. One could posit billions of years between Creation and Adam. …I was wondering this as well. No where does it state the ammount of time between God created the earth, and when Adam sinned and dating began. (I wonder how long they were in the garden for?) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/55 "2003-07-25T07:36:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Blue Sky \* > \*\*Relevant website \*\* What, if anything, is this website relevant to…? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/56 "2003-07-25T07:55:42Z")
First off, quoting myself: > [@](#): > > I greatly Albert Einstein’s wisdom and his work :smack: I greatly **ADMIRE** Al. :smack: **Dutchboy** , **Mr. Blue Sky** posted this as an example of some typical Young Earth arguments. I wouldn’t bother refuting them, but apparently we’re not all in agreement if we should trust scientists or ancient Hebrew tribal patriarchs when it comes to matters of science. From the web page: > [@](#): > > The moon is drifting slowly away from the Earth. If it is getting further away, then at one time it was much closer. The Inverse Square Law in physics states that if the moon was half the distance away, its gravitational effect on our tides would be quadrupled. … 1.2 billion (1,200 million) years ago, the moon would have been touching the Earth. Utter crap. The current theory is that the moon was knocked out of the Earth due to impact with a rogue planet, and it was way more than 1.2 billion years ago. All that is discussed [in this old thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184511&highlight=Mars+AND+Moon). > [@](#): > > The Earth’s spin is slowing down. We experience a “leap second” every year and a half. If it is slowing down, at one time it was going much faster. A faster spin would create a stronger Coriolis Effect, and life would be impossible as we know it. This, and the Magnetic Field one, are the same kind of stupidity. Take a present trend and project it back all the way across time, even though that’s not how it happened. It’s absurd to assume that things are as they always have been, and it’s demonstrably wrong in these cases (the Earth’s magnetic field periodically fluctuates). ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/57 "2003-07-25T07:59:48Z")
If God was capable of creating the universe, which he did a little over 6000 years ago, then it would be a doddle to fix the evidence so that it looked like the earth was created only 6000 ya. By making it appear the universe and life evolved slowly over a fantasticly huge period of time, it allows people to believe in him, rather than accept the evidence at face value. Thus God can continue to exist and not, as Douglas Adams put it, vanish in a puff of logic. * * * _“Set out to leave the first vapour trail in the blue-sky scenario” -David Brent, The Office_ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/58 "2003-07-25T08:13:56Z")
> [@](#): > > If God was capable of creating the universe, which he did a little over 6000 years ago, then it would be a doddle to fix the evidence so that it looked like the earth was created only 6000 ya. Of course, the 6000 years comes from interpretation, not scripture. So it would be just as sensible to argue that the world in fact came into being 1.2 seconds ago, and all evidence to the contrary was fabricated by god to give us reason to believe in him or some such horseshit. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/59 "2003-07-25T13:45:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Blue Sky \* > \*\*Relevant website \*\* thats a cool site thanks ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295/60 "2003-07-25T13:48:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > \*\*Of course, the 6000 years comes from interpretation, not scripture. So it would be just as sensible to argue that the world in fact came into being 1.2 seconds ago, and all evidence to the contrary was fabricated by god to give us reason to believe in him or some such horseshit. \*\* that my man is a good fucking point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-that-the-earth-is-6-000-years-old/190295.md?page=4)