# Prove the big bang... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 14, 2007, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575 "2007-08-14T17:22:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2007, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/41 "2007-08-14T21:41:59Z")
bang! Q.E.D. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2007, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/42 "2007-08-14T22:28:42Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Can you tell me what, _precisely_, you hope to accomplish with this thread? Seriously. [/QUOTE] Perhaps the hope was that this thread would provoke such a Big Bang of sarcasm and snark that it would be clear to all that the Universe’s Big Bang must also have come from a Message Board, but not of the Chicago Reader but instead of the Sacred Ether of Existence, as God hit the “Submit” button to his post: “It is.” ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2007, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/43 "2007-08-14T22:29:58Z")
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar] He did, several times. [/QUOTE] Am I being whooshed or something? lightwait has posted exactly once in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2007, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/44 "2007-08-14T22:33:48Z")
[QUOTE=sturmhauke] Am I being whooshed or something? lightwait has posted exactly once in this thread. [/QUOTE] Ah, the singularity! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2007, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/45 "2007-08-14T23:37:23Z")
[QUOTE=sturmhauke] Am I being whooshed or something? lightwait has posted exactly once in this thread. [/QUOTE] Which would seem to be irrelevant since the original question from **xtisme** was whether he had ever returned to his other recent thread. In that case, after an absence of quite some time, he did return to the thread and actually engaged in exchanges of statements\* with other posters. - (Read it yourself to see whether they exchanged information or ideas.) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2007, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/46 "2007-08-14T23:52:13Z")
Yup. Admittedly, I couldn’t slog through the whole thread (it was like 4 pages IIRC and there wasn’t really a debate in there that I could see. The forum is for witnessing as well, which seemed what it was about) so me being the lazy sort, I was simply asking if s/he had ever made another showing…since if not there was probably no point in continuing with THIS thread in the vain hope of a further showing. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2007, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/47 "2007-08-14T23:59:15Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] “The atoms or the elementary particles are not real; they form a world of potentialities and possibilities rather than one of things or facts.” — Werner Heisenberg [/QUOTE] I’m not sure about seeing electrons, but I know that we can see atoms, and that researchers at IBM spelled IBM using individual atoms. So they are no more ephemeral than we are. If you want to get poetic, however… ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2007, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/48 "2007-08-15T00:18:34Z")
[QUOTE=lightwait] I dare you to prove the big bang! You cannot do it! You were not there! Blessings [/QUOTE] The universe and everything in it was created ex nihilo a little over 100 years ago. Since no one currently alive existed back then, then neither did the universe; all that stuff you call evidence was simply created at the same time the universe was created. Prove me wrong, **lightwait**. You can’t - you weren’t there. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2007, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/49 "2007-08-15T00:26:29Z")
[QUOTE=lightwait] I dare you to prove the big bang! You cannot do it! You were not there! Blessings [/QUOTE] You have blown my mind. My mind has been blown. Seriously . . . is it possible you’re doing satire here? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2007, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/50 "2007-08-15T00:49:46Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] . . . I was simply asking if s/he had ever made another showing…since if not there was probably no point in continuing with THIS thread in the vain hope of a further showing. [/QUOTE] Regardless whether he returned to the other thread, (or returns to this thread), the question of point remains undetermined. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2007, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/51 "2007-08-15T00:55:07Z")
[QUOTE=runner pat] Prove God made the world in six days. You cannot do it. You were not there. See? Works both ways. [/QUOTE] You’re not helping us though. Scientists hold themselves to a different standard than the faithful, by comparing us you strengthen them. **lightwait** does seem like a bible thumping troll…never seen that before. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2007, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/52 "2007-08-15T01:05:57Z")
[QUOTE=Sitnam] **lightwait** does seem like a bible thumping troll…never seen that before. [/QUOTE] And I never want to see accusations of trolling in Great Debates, again. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2007, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/53 "2007-08-15T01:11:22Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] And I never want to see accusations of trolling in Great Debates, again. [/Moderating] [/QUOTE] Apparently this was a rule I was unaware of, pray tell, why does it exist? ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2007, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/54 "2007-08-15T02:15:56Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Which would seem to be irrelevant since the original question from **xtisme** was whether he had ever returned to his other recent thread. [/QUOTE] I, uh, knew that. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2007, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/55 "2007-08-15T07:58:43Z")
[QUOTE=Sitnam] Apparently this was a rule I was unaware of, pray tell, why does it exist? [/QUOTE] The rule [can be found here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7696935#post7696935). The reason is that we find accusations of trolling nearly as disruptive as trolling because they ltend to lead to massive hijacks of threads while posters argue over whether the poster is engaged in deliberate trolling or simply suffers from an infelicitous manner of posting. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2007, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/56 "2007-08-15T08:12:44Z")
[QUOTE=MILTBore] I WAS there and I saw it! I dare you to prove that I was not! [/QUOTE] This had me giggling. Really. And I’m not prone to giggling. A brilliant and unassailable argument, and funny to boot. I’d seriously like to see lightwait adress this. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2007, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/57 "2007-08-15T11:43:10Z")
I wonder if some of the physicists among us could answer a few questions I’ve always had about the Big Bang. 1. What existed before the Big Bang? 2. If all the matter of the universe originated from a single point in space, what was the force that caused it to explode? 3. If all the matter of the universe was at one time in a single point, would that not be a black hole? And since nothing can escape a black hole, are currently inside one? Are what we know black holes actually black holes withing the universal black hole? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2007, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/58 "2007-08-15T12:25:45Z")
[QUOTE=Blake] This had me giggling. Really. And I’m not prone to giggling. A brilliant and unassailable argument, and funny to boot. I’d seriously like to see lightwait adress this. [/QUOTE] It’s shifting the burden of proof, which is a terrible argument. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2007, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/59 "2007-08-15T12:32:16Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] I’m not sure about seeing electrons, but I know that we can see atoms, and that researchers at IBM spelled IBM using individual atoms. So they are no more ephemeral than we are. If you want to get poetic, however… [/QUOTE] It doesn’t matter what you can or can’t see. You can “see” wind by looking at how trees are behaving. What Heisenberg meant in context, I think, is that what scientists deal with at the quantum level are mathematical abstractions. The only thing you can really see is the effect of photons bombarding your retina. Everything about their journey you must extrapolate logically. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2007, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575/60 "2007-08-15T13:32:50Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] 1. What existed before the Big Bang? [/QUOTE] We can’t really know. That state of matter, everything = 1 point, doesn’t give us any clues at all about what came before. > [@](#): > > 1. If all the matter of the universe originated from a single point in space, what was the force that caused it to explode? It wasn’t an explosion in the way you think of it. There was no trigger which generated force that physically threw matter away. It was an expansion of material from a single point. > [@](#): > > 1. If all the matter of the universe was at one time in a single point, would that not be a black hole? Not really, because it wasn’t really matter the way we think of it now. It wasn’t a giant lump of iron or whatever, it was a unique state. > [@](#): > > And since nothing can escape a black hole, are currently inside one? This isn’t right, black holes do throw throw off Hawking radiation, and so evaporate over time. > [@](#): > > Are what we know black holes actually black holes withing the universal black hole? Not sure what your question is here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prove-the-big-bang/415575.md?page=4)