# Proved and proven

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proved-and-proven/525259>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [January 17, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proved-and-proven/525259 "2010-01-17T01:02:34Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 6\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\
**Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proved-and-proven/525259/1 "2010-01-17T01:02:34Z")

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Which is correct: ‘That hasn’t been proved’, or ‘That hasn’t been proven’?

What are the rules for using ‘proved’/‘proven’?

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**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\
**Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proved-and-proven/525259/2 "2010-01-17T01:19:35Z")

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That hasn’t been proven, because nobody proved it.

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**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\
**Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proved-and-proven/525259/3 "2010-01-17T01:33:43Z")

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Actually, both are correct. The past participle for “prove” is either “proven” or “proved.”

And a [cite](http://www.answers.com/topic/prove):

> [@](#):
>
> Prove has two past participles: proved and proven. Proved is the older form. Proven is a variant. The Middle English spellings of prove included preven, a form that died out in England but survived in Scotland, and the past participle proven, a form that probably rose by analogy with verbs like weave, woven and cleave, cloven. Proven was originally used in Scottish legal contexts, such as The jury ruled that the charges were not proven. In the 20th century, proven has made inroads into the territory once dominated by proved, so that now the two forms compete on equal footing as participles. However, when used as an adjective before a noun, proven is now the more common word: a proven talent.

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**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\
**Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proved-and-proven/525259/4 "2010-01-17T02:08:56Z")

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The past tense is always “proved”: “The defense attorney proved his client could not have been at the scene of the crime.” As noted, both terms are in use as the past participle.

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**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\
**Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proved-and-proven/525259/5 "2010-01-17T03:23:25Z")

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‘Proven’ is obsolete usage, except in Scottish courts which can return a “not proven” verdict.

‘Unproven’ and ‘Disproven’ remain in current usage.

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**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\
**Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proved-and-proven/525259/6 "2010-01-17T03:26:25Z")

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> [@Peter\_Morris](#):
>
> ‘Proven’ is obsolete usage, except in Scottish courts which can return a “not proven” verdict.
> 
> ‘Unproven’ and ‘Disproven’ remain in current usage.

I hear “proven” often enough used as a past participle. I hardly think it’s obsolete. The citation I provided above seems to agree.