Well…Still, the way I see it, if you want to have a man live in space, you talk to the Russians. If you want to put a man on another body, you talk to the Americans. Even with the problems both countries’ space programs have had.
There are two groups of dudes who think the “moon landing was all a hoax”. Group #1 have been flim-flammed by the Government before, and thus simply don’t accept the Moon landing on general principals. They haven’t looked into it much, but they know (with some validity) that “the Guvmint lies” and thus they simply assume that it’s another damn lie. This group- as long as they don’t attend “militia” meetings and such- are not crackpots. They are “once bitten- twice shy” or “super skeptics”. Although you can’t convince them that the Government doesn’t lie (and after all- it does) it is possible to convince them that the Moon Landing wasn’t one of many government lies. They can be reasoned with. Tread with caution, but it’s worth doing.
Then there’s the guy who has looked into it carefully. If they still think “it is all a hoax” - they can **NOT **be reasoned with. You are wasting your time. Every proof- no matter how solid- is either “faked, planted or just another lie”.
It seems to me that our OP’s “that guy” falls solidly into Group 2. In which case- give it up. He cannot be convinced and in fact there is something wrong “upstairs”. Sorry. 
Invite him here and we’ll take a crack at it. 
Ah well, if that is all, why bother? It is a harmless enough belief. If he is nuts in a lot of other ways, I would worry, but maybe this can become that one thing you guys agree to disagree over and gently tease each other with.
Or maybe he is nuts.
Show him this squib from the new issue of Discover magazine:
What are the alternative explanations for this? Are the scientists still continuing a 30-year-old hoax? Is their data fabricated? Are they being punk’d by the government? Why in hell would anyone bother to make this stuff up?
Or if real scientists are doing real science that depends on the Apollo astronauts deploying seismic stations on the moon, then maybe they were there in the first place.
Once given this evidence, if he still BELIEVES, I would very much like to hear his rebuttals. I just can’t fathom what he’d say.
It wouldn’t be for me. Harmless that is. To me it wouldn’t be much different than believing that the Earth is the back of a giant turtle supported by three elephants.
Seriously, science, physics etc. are the rules of the universe and if you can’t even basically understand and accept them, well, there’s something wrong with you.
One of the best scenes in HBO’s From the Earth to the Moon series was in the first episode, “Can We Do This?” where one of the scientists, when asked this by Kennedy’s science advisor, explains that there’s nothing special about going to the moon. Its simply just a matter of weight, thrust, fuel etc. In other words, if the math works out then yes, of course it can be done (and the math did work out).
Her statement that he said, “its scientifically impossible for men to go to the moon” makes me think he’s not stuck on the ‘evil govt’ aspect. Maybe its the old infamous ‘its impossible for humans to pass thru the Van Allen belt and live’ line. In which case this has been thoroughly debunked.
Check out the Encyclopedia Astronautica for tons of facts, figures and day by day diaries of just how hard the Soviets did try to land on the moon (and didn’t give up until 1974!)
So are you still over the moon about him?
But that’s just crazy talk. Have you ever seen a turtle that could balance a flat object on its back? :rolleyes:
Four elephants. With only three the load would be too unbalenced and would fall off of Great A’Tuin’s back
Bah. Skeptics are skeptical of themselves first of all. It seems that the people who doubt the moon landing take themselves totally uncritically.
If this guy doesn’t respond to evidence and logic, he isn’t worth it. There are plenty of sane men out there who would like being with a sane woman.
Naive: everyone is good
Skeptical: everyone is bad
Idealistic: everyone is bad except me
There’s the consideration of radio signals and orbits. The Moon goes round the Earth around every 28 days because of its distance from the Earth. The Earth rotates every 24 hours, so various radio receivers on Earth will be able to receive the Apollo signals at any one time. By detecting when the signals are cut off as a receiver drops below the horizon, and re-established when a receiver comes over the horizon, you can work out the period of the orbiting source and therefore how far away it is.
I can’t think of any credible way to fake a source of radio signals coming from the Moon. If they were coming from somewhere closer such an Earth orbit satellite, the signals source would go around the Earth slower than the Moon. The Soviet Union would have spotted this, and I have no doubt they were looking.
You can’t argue with belief. Especially insane ones.
How does he tie in the moon hoax with the grassy knoll?
Aws others have pointed out, you cannot argue with belief. A discussion with the average Moon Hoax theorist goes like this;
Theorist: I don’t believe it.
You: Here’s proof.
Theorist: It’s fake, and here’s a heap of basic misunderstandings of technology and science that prove it.
You: Sorry, they are all wrong because…
Theorist: Well, that’s just the easy stuff. You’ve not disproved all the solid facts that show it’s a hoax.
You: What are those solid fact then?
Theorist: silence
You: Well?
Theorist: Look, I don’t understand the science here, so rather than admit some people may be smarter than me and have spent a lifetime on the subject, I’m just going to declare it impossible!
You: ???
Either that or they go deeper and deeper into minor details demanding explanations until, unless you were an Apollo technician with all the handbooks to hand, you can’t possibly answer them. (“At what rate did the spacesuit cooling system expel water as vapour? I think they would have run out within an hour of landing in the moon.”) At which point they declare their argument won. (Ah ha! Told you! Your failure to address this obvious problem shows that the moonlanding was impossible!")
Another point if it was all faked, why bother to create a “fake” crisis during Apollo 13? Were the “actors” on strike? :smack:
That was a Hollywood film. I saw it! The actors were well known stars like Tom Cruise and Kevin Bacon. This shows how much the Government is laughing at us. They could have used unknown actors, but THEY JUST DON’T CARE!!
Also I saw a secret film about how the Government faked the Mars landings. But the astronauts were in trouble when the fake spaceship blew up and had to run for their lives and they all got caught except one and he kept going AND MADE IT TO HIS OWN FUNERAL AND NOBODY BELEIVES ME BUT i DID SEE IT AND i HAVE TO GO NOW…
Reminds me of some story I heard about the Hindu guru asked by a young boy: what supports the world? “An elephant.” “But what supports that elephant?” “Another elephant.” “But what does that elephant stand on?” “My son, it’s elephants all the way down.”
Alternatively:
[Ali G to Buzz Aldrin, or as he called him, 'Buzz Lightyear]“I know this must get on your tits, but what does you say to all the conspiracy theorists who say that the moon don’t exist?”[/Ali G]
I fall into the catagorey of Skeptical Not-Quite-Believer.
I think it’s completely possible that the gov staged the whole thing.
Do i think it’s impossible for man to land on the moon? of course not.
I’m jest not totally convinced that we DID.
However, I don’t really care that much, and havn’t looked into it.
I saw the fox show, and most of the arguments came off lame. Granted, speeding up the film, DID give it a look that it coulda been staged.
anyway, the only arguement, that i havn’t seen refuted (probably cuz i havn’t bothered to look) is the theory that there is too much radiation in DEEP space (beyond the protections provided by the Earth) and that we could not put enough “armor” (can’t think of the correct word) on a craft to protect the Guinea Pigs… i mean, Astronauts. (also said argument said that the ISS and shuttle flights all stay w/in the protected zone)
Is there any truth to that? (the more radiation theory) and how DO we protect them from it? Or is it a non-issue?
(I actually had this arguement w/ a buddy, but as w/ most of my ideas, he mostly implies i’m an idiot for (trying) to have original thought… even when most times HE’S the one who’s wrong… and if he can’t prove he’s right, he’ll fall back to “fuck you”… I’ve mostly learned not to have “intellectual conversations” w/ him… but he’s moved the FU to my not agreeing w/ his opinions of movies too… so I don’t think i’ll be hanging out w/ him much anytime soon… ok… therepy session is over… who do i pay?)
From the aforelinked Bad Astronomy Page: