# Provocative thoughts about Terri Schaivo, the Bushes, and Congress **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 31, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097 "2005-03-31T19:24:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/21 "2005-03-31T21:51:38Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I hadn’t heard of any bruises and am putting them in the same category as the bleeding from the eyes–the BS pile just gets bigger with this case. I strand corrected, thank you for the info. The whole thing has been tragic and obscene enough, and was already a circus, without more lies being told. ---
**Author:** ![MisterThyristor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecccb3/32.png) [@MisterThyristor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MisterThyristor)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/22 "2005-03-31T21:57:23Z")
How do you explain someone still asking these stupid questions when EVERY ONE OF THEM has been answered in other threads? **Doppleganger** , would you at least read the summary by the guardian ad litem? ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/23 "2005-03-31T22:00:56Z")
Be careful Dopplegangler. Too much kool-aid will make you sick. ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/24 "2005-03-31T22:07:32Z")
Okay, Doppleganger, I’m going to try and be um…well, maybe not kind, but at ltest rational. Each and every one of those “How do You Explain” Questions have been raised by people with an agenda. Whether that is their own 15 minutes of fame, or to call off attention to several Ethics violation investigations barreling down on them, or are extreme right to lifers who are simply using this as a stanging ploy to get the “right” kind of activist judges appointed. Do a little research of your own. Read up a little. I’m not going to point out every single error in your post, because they have been gone over and over and over and over again in the 40 some odd post dedicated to this subject on this board alone. The fact of the matter is, Mrs. Shciavo did not want to be kept alive in that condition. The point has been litigated to the fullest extent of the law, and every time the courts came down on the side of Mr. Schiavo, who is her legal guardian. Stop listening to reactionary, bellowing “pundits” and think for yourself, dammit! ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/25 "2005-03-31T22:07:39Z")
An equation for all– Wilful ignorance + denial= stupidity ---
**Author:** ![Khan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3ab097/32.png) [@Khan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/26 "2005-03-31T22:10:51Z")
> [@Doppleganger](#): > > I hope that the Schindler’s sue Mr. Schiavo civilally for murder. If they do I believe they stand a good chance of winning. For one there is the bone scan which shows a history of trauma. Then there are the reports of a girlfriend (after Terri was injured, but before he made his bastard kids with his current woman) who states that Mr. Schiavo threatened and stalked her. Then there are the statements from Terri’s former friends and family who say that Terri was about to leave Michael when she was “injured”. We also have the testimony of Dr’s like Michael Baden that it would be very unlikely that electrolyte deplection caused her brain damage as opposed to physical trauma. What about the autopsy then? You’d think that a bastard such as the one you’ve depicted would want to hide physical evidence of the abuse. > [@](#): > > We also have former nurses like nurse Iyer who have said that they believed Michael tried to kill Terri while in Long Term Care (she even filed a police report at the time and was fired). Michael also admits to not even performing CPR (despite being trained in it) when Terri supposedly collasped initially. All in all the parents very well might win by a preponderence of the evidence. The fact that he studied nursing so he could care for her notwithstanding. “Preponderance of evidence.” Autopsy, fuckwit. AUTOPSY. But then, any prospect that might clear a ruined man’s name is just an inconvenient afterthought. > [@](#): > > Today, America stood by and did nothing as a likely wife beater was allowed to slowly starve a woman to death with the sanction and protection of the courts. A court overseen by a conservative, pro-life judge who stuck to his interpretation of events. Not some pinko-liberal “activist judge.” Another inconvenient afterthought. A man who was booted out of his church for sticking to his guns. A man whose family and self now need bodyguards. A man whose dedication one can only admire. One whose OBJECTIVITY one can only admire, as evidenced by his willingness to make a decision that one would expect to go against his political beliefs. > [@](#): > > The fact that the parents had over thirty doctors on record as saying that Mrs. Schiavo was _not_ in a PVS, but was instead minimally concious meant nothing. Cite? > [@](#): > > Those who had no problem with Janet Reno taking action in the Gonzales case when the 11th Circuit ruled against her proclaimed that the legislative branch had no business even passing a law which they wouldn’t enforce. Jeb, and George Bush despite their statements did little to actually protect life. Not only did they do little to protect it, but they politicized the bejesus out of a family matter, further proved that their party of “small government” is controlled by hypocrites. “Err on the side of life” my ass. Where were these bleeding hearts for the first ten years? What of the aforementioned ridicule of a condemned woman? What of the Texas futile care law (I’m at work; I’ll track down the cite when I go home, but I’d appreciate it someone could help me out here)? Yeah. They’ll pay lip service to “life” to appease their base. > [@](#): > > Today America moved closer to Huxley’s and Orwell’s totalitarian state as the band played on to the dirge of “I wouldn’t want to live like that.” Today America stood up against the religious right (while I admit that they could just as well use this poor woman as a martyr for their cause and perpetuate the atrocity they perpetrated). And then there’s the matter that you’ve dismissed the possibility that maybe, JUST MAYBE that there was no hope for this woman to recover. Maybe her husband wasn’t the monster you characterize him as. I’ll ask you directly: what do you make of the fact that he was there with her when she died? Was he making sure she was dead? Was he doing it for appearances? What do you make of it? What do you make of the CT scan photos posted earlier? Preponderance of evidence my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/27 "2005-03-31T22:11:01Z")
> [@Doppleganger](#): > > How do you explain … Dear me, another one? I see no point in answering these one by one. If you read this [behemoth](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=307479) paying special attention to the links, you will find your answers. Sheesh. :insert old roll-eyes here: ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/28 "2005-03-31T22:17:31Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I strand corrected, thank you for the info. The whole thing has been tragic and obscene enough, and was already a circus, without more lies being told. From driving with my boss I have to point out that psychohosebeats Laura Ingraham seems to be far more of a screeching lunatic than Rush Limbaugh. Not defending the oxycontin-chugging prick, but just pointing out that h’s the big name, not the worst one. -Joe, can’t believe he just wrote that ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/29 "2005-03-31T22:50:51Z")
If Mr. Schaivo is “sued for murder” ( it would actually be a civil suit for the tort called “wrongful death”) his defense would be to simply produce copies of all the numerous court orders that sanctioned what happened. It can hardly be called wrongful if a court, or in this case numerous courts, signed off and approved of it beforehand. ---
**Author:** ![Doppleganger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Doppleganger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doppleganger)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/30 "2005-03-31T23:02:27Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > If Mr. Schaivo is “sued for murder” ( it would actually be a civil suit for the tort called “wrongful death”) his defense would be to simply produce copies of all the numerous court orders that sanctioned what happened. It can hardly be called wrongful if a court, or in this case numerous courts, signed off and approved of it beforehand. I would sue him for causing the initial injury which ultimately resulted in her death. The court orders that permitted him to remove the tube in no way authorized him to assault her in the first place (if that is what occured). To support my accusations I would rely upon the following: 1. Statements from friends, family and co-workers who stated that Terri and Michael had a major argument just before her initial collapse. 2. The paramedics/police report which indicate that she was found face down with her fists clenched. 3. The fact that Michael S. stated under oath that he didn’t believe that Terri had Bulemia. 4. The fact that there was a bone scan which showed multiple previous bone fractures. 5. The fact that Michael was the only one with Terri when she collasped 6. The sworn statements by nurse Iyer and others who said that Michael was verbally and possibly physically abusive to Terri when she was in LTC. As to why Michael was in the room when she died only God can say for sure. What do I think? a. He wanted to be there for appearances. Not only for the world, but probably for his own family inlcuding his current woman/children. b. He took pleasure in denying the Schindler’s the opportunity to be there at the last moments of their daughters life. c. He could finally see with his own eyes that “the bitch was dead” (nurse Iyer says that he once asked the question of when the bitch would die.) ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/31 "2005-03-31T23:08:02Z")
Okay. I quit. It’s like beating your head against a wall. I actually thought Doppie wanted a debate, with facts and stuff. My mistake. sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Mona\_Lott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee7513/32.png) [@Mona\_Lott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mona_Lott)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/32 "2005-03-31T23:09:32Z")
You, sir, are hopelessly uninformed. If you will not try to educate yourself, I’m afraid there is nothing to be gained here for you. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/33 "2005-03-31T23:13:25Z")
Nurse Lyer (what an apt name!) was deemed not credible by the courts. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/34 "2005-03-31T23:15:42Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Nurse Lyer (what an apt name!) was deemed not credible by the courts. not the least of reasons why being that her conspiracy involved the Schindlers not saying anything about what she suppossedly told them. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/35 "2005-03-31T23:25:49Z")
Doppelganger, don’t you think that if Michael Schiavo was even a teensy bit responsible for Terri’s condition, it would have come to light during the course of the medical malpractice claim? If you’re going to stress out worrying that a guilty man got away with murder, read the other threads, and the links in them. None of the items in your list hold up. God forbid you’re ever on a jury. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/36 "2005-03-31T23:29:54Z")
> [@Doppleganger](#): > > I would sue him for causing the initial injury which ultimately resulted in her death. The court orders that permitted him to remove the tube in no way authorized him to assault her in the first place (if that is what occured). To support my accusations I would rely upon the following: > > 1. Statements from friends, family and co-workers who stated that Terri and Michael had a major argument just before her initial collapse. > > 2. The paramedics/police report which indicate that she was found face down with her fists clenched. > > 3. The fact that Michael S. stated under oath that he didn’t believe that Terri had Bulemia. > > 4. The fact that there was a bone scan which showed multiple previous bone fractures. > > 5. The fact that Michael was the only one with Terri when she collasped > > 6. The sworn statements by nurse Iyer and others who said that Michael was verbally and possibly physically abusive to Terri when she was in LTC. > > As to why Michael was in the room when she died only God can say for sure. What do I think? > > a. He wanted to be there for appearances. Not only for the world, but probably for his own family inlcuding his current woman/children. > > b. He took pleasure in denying the Schindler’s the opportunity to be there at the last moments of their daughters life. > > c. He could finally see with his own eyes that “the bitch was dead” (nurse Iyer says that he once asked the question of when the bitch would die.) You should print this post out, and show it to the judge every time you get called for jury duty. You’ll never have to sit on a jury so long as you live. The justice system can only benefit thereby. Seriously: face down with her fists clenched? What the hell is that supposed to prove? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/37 "2005-03-31T23:40:01Z")
…that TS was actually a fervent supporter of the Black Power movement, but didn’t get her arm all the way up quick enough before her brain shut down d/t lack of oxygen. **Doppelganger’s** brain might be suffering from the same lack of essential gas… :wally (my first ever putz! I am so proud!) ---
**Author:** ![Khan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3ab097/32.png) [@Khan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/38 "2005-03-31T23:48:47Z")
> [@Doppleganger](#): > > b. He took pleasure in denying the Schindler’s the opportunity to be there at the last moments of their daughters life. For that suggestion, you’re a smug, self-righteous son of a bitch who’s every bit as evil as you claim Michael Schiavo. Fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/39 "2005-03-31T23:54:57Z")
My statements **are in bold** 1. Statements from friends, family and co-workers who stated that Terri and Michael had a major argument just before her initial collapse. **Because Gawd knows, married couples never argue, and there is no such thing as coincidence. Or the possibility that someone with an eating disorder could have it be AGGRAVATED by the stress of a marital argument.** 1. The paramedics/police report which indicate that she was found face down with her fists clenched. **Means nothing. NEXT!** 1. The fact that Michael S. stated under oath that he didn’t believe that Terri had Bulemia. **Maybe she had anorexia instead.** 1. The fact that there was a bone scan which showed multiple previous bone fractures. \*\*Horseback riding, gymnastics, any other thing people do for fun that can go wrong. \*\* 1. The fact that Michael was the only one with Terri when she collasped. **Well, he WAS her husband. Unless middle-class white women often travel with an entourage, in which case, what country is that, I’d like to live there?** 1. The sworn statements by nurse Iyer and others who said that Michael was verbally and possibly physically abusive to Terri when she was in LTC. **And then Nurse Iyer got fired. No issues with professionalism there, surely.** As to why Michael was in the room when she died only God can say for sure. What do I think? **Who cares? You’ve already shown yourself to be an imbecile.** a. He wanted to be there for appearances. Not only for the world, but probably for his own family inlcuding his current woman/children. b. He took pleasure in denying the Schindler’s the opportunity to be there at the last moments of their daughters life. **I don’t see how him being there precludes the Schindler’s being there, unless they are so immature they can’t be in the same room as him at the moment of their daughter’s physical death. As for your amazing psychic powers, can I borrow them? I have a job interview on Tuesday and I want to suss out my prospective bosses’ feelings.** c. He could finally see with his own eyes that “the bitch was dead” (nurse Iyer says that he once asked the question of when the bitch would die.) **See above comment about former nurse Iyer. I wouldn’t trust anything out of her mouth if she was reading the phone book.** ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097/40 "2005-03-31T23:59:27Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > From driving with my boss I have to point out that psychohosebeats Laura Ingraham seems to be far more of a screeching lunatic than Rush Limbaugh. > > Not defending the oxycontin-chugging prick, but just pointing out that h’s the big name, not the worst one. > > -Joe, can’t believe he just wrote that It’s OK, I can’t stand her either. The list of people I despise keeps getting larger. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/provocative-thoughts-about-terri-schaivo-the-bushes-and-congress/297097.md?page=3)