PSA: Cops ARE doing their job!!

The BBQ Pit
41

[QUOTE=fetus]
Yet, mysteriously, when the cop wanders into the drug den across the street, he never pops back out with an arrestee in hand! That’s so strange! It’s a BIG FUCKING MYSTERY! I wonder WHAT THE FUCK GOES ON IN THAT HOUSE! I wonder HOW THAT COP MAKES A LIVING!

Probably doing his job, eh?
[/QUOTE]

Gotta cite for this or did you see it on some TV show? If you actually see this have you reported it? I guarantee you internal affairs at the copshop would be very interested. I am the first one to admit that some cops are crooked but I also know that there are cops to police other cops. They take their job seriously. And when they don’t, you can report them to the attorney general of your state. If your story is at all believable they will investigate.

42

[QUOTE=scr4]
The road in front of my apartment is one such place: long wide road (2 lanes each way plus a center lane), and 25 mph limit.
[/QUOTE]

Well, then, that’s a textbook case of an artificially low limit set as a (literal) highway robbery trap.

43

[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun]
That’s not really what most people think of as a “speed trap”. Speed traps are usually set up by some tiny little town on the route of a highway. They zone the speed limits in a way that it drops drastically in a short space. From 55 mph down to 25 mph in 50 yards, for example. Even if you take your foot off the accelerator, you’re still traveling faster that 25 mph when you pass that last sign. And that’s where the cops waiting to write you a ticket. It’s the chief source of revenue for some towns.

It’s annoying, but we still can’t bitch about the cops for enforcing it. We can, however, bitch about the town council that set up the speed trap.
[/QUOTE]

This sort of classic speed trap is a cut-and-dried example of obvious abuse of police authority. In such cases, “I was just following orders” is not a valid excuse.

[QUOTE=Harriet the Spry]
The people in the town, on the other hand, want to live in a place where their kids can ride a bike, they can pull out of the driveway, they can cross a street on foot, etc. with traffic at a reasonable 35-45 mph.
[/QUOTE]

Then they need to do so on side streets designed for low-speed traffic, not on main thoroughfares designed for 60-70 mph traffic.

44

[QUOTE=Steve MB]
Well, then, that’s a textbook case of an artificially low limit set as a (literal) highway robbery trap.
[/QUOTE]

That is not a classic speed trap. Just because the roadway is straight and level does not mean that the speed should be high. In the example given, the roadway is going through an apartment complex. Roads going through high density housing should be at a lower speed limit. I know of a spot exactly like this in the next town over. As soon as the apartments end, the speed goes up to 40mph. It makes sense. The classic speed trap is when a road goes from 40 to 25 for no reason or warning and there is a cop right there. If it is obvious that the surroundings have changed (you left the rural area and are now in town) it is not a speed trap.

[QUOTE=fetus]
Yet, mysteriously, when the cop wanders into the drug den across the street, he never pops back out with an arrestee in hand! That’s so strange! It’s a BIG FUCKING MYSTERY! I wonder WHAT THE FUCK GOES ON IN THAT HOUSE! I wonder HOW THAT COP MAKES A LIVING!

Probably doing his job, eh?
[/QUOTE]

Whatever dude. I guarantee I make a lot more money than any drug dealer I run into.

45

[QUOTE=Steve MB]
This sort of classic speed trap is a cut-and-dried example of obvious abuse of police authority. In such cases, “I was just following orders” is not a valid excuse.
[/quote]
Bullshit. We’ve all learned by now (or should have learned) that when you pass a sign listing X as the allowable speed, then you must be traveling at or within the error allowable for overage of that speed. So long as the signage is appropriate under MUTCD or other applicable standard, you can cry me a river.

Bullshit, again. I don’t give a damn what speed the road was designed for. The posted limit is what is important. Since when does your desire to get from A to B as quickly as possible trump the rights of the property owners who may have been there long before the road was widened and traffic volume increased?

46

I don’t have any particular grudge against cops as a group. I do have a grudge against people who are assholes, and in my (drastically limited) experience I’ve encountered at least two such officers of the law. One just harassed me for the crime of being a teenager in public, which I’ve since recovered from (being a teenager, that is).

The other flat-out lied when he said he “had” to write a ticket for a minor traffic offense. I talked to a lawyer, who debunked that. When I called and tried to complain, no seemed remotely interested.

So, yeah, they’re doing their job. If they don’t like it and the stress leads them into asshole territory, they can quit and get another job. No one owes them any more respect than anyone else.

47

[QUOTE=askeptic]
If you actually see this have you reported it?
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and piss off the cop(s) and the dealers? Not a fucking chance.

48

[QUOTE=danceswithcats]
trump the rights of the property owners
[/QUOTE]

They own the road?

If not, they aren’t “property owners” in any relevant way.

49

That kind of speed trap has caused some states to enact laws regarding how much the speed limit can be reduced in one increment and over what distance.

Then you don’t give a damn that the now-defunct town of New Rome, Ohio was dissolved by the state based in part on its corrupt police force and town government, which set artificially low speed limits at the exact borders of town in order to fleece motorists?

When a town of only a few hundred people has fourteen police officers and makes almost all of the money in their budget from traffic tickets, something is wrong, and it’s not the way people drive.

You, living in PA, should know about artificially low speed limits. Our freeways are a joke to the rest of the country, although it has gotten marginally better since they removed the ‘Pennsylvania’s Maximum Speed Limit: STILL 55 MPH’ signs from the freeways.

50

[QUOTE=catsix]
Then you don’t give a damn that the now-defunct town of New Rome, Ohio was dissolved by the state based in part on its corrupt police force and town government, which set artificially low speed limits at the exact borders of town in order to fleece motorists?

When a town of only a few hundred people has fourteen police officers and makes almost all of the money in their budget from traffic tickets, something is wrong, and it’s not the way people drive.

You, living in PA, should know about artificially low speed limits. Our freeways are a joke to the rest of the country, although it has gotten marginally better since they removed the ‘Pennsylvania’s Maximum Speed Limit: STILL 55 MPH’ signs from the freeways.
[/QUOTE]

Context. It’s a beautiful thing. Steve MB was talking about tearing down main street at 60 or 70 MPH, and several posters spoke of people who have driveways connecting to said road, children who play along said road, etc., which he didn’t like.

Two identically engineered roads-one running through the middle of West Horsefart County, population: next to nobody, and the other running through a town, complete with sidewalks, driveways, stores, kids, bicycles, dogs, etc. are going to be signed for speed limits appropriate to the total scenario. Expecting to drive through an urban area at more than 25 or 35 MPH is unreasonable, hence my comment.

With respect to New Rome, I long ago read of their corrupt little deal, and in no way, shape, or form did I defend them. Improper signage and sign spacing would violate the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, but perhaps Ohio law allows a local political entity to override state engineering. In PA, PennDOT sets the speed limits for all state roadways, even if that roadway is Main Street, and a City, Borough, or Township must go through an appeals process to have that limit altered.

51

What disturbs me is the loop:

Cops catch minor traffic violations for substantial fines ->
The generated income allows City Hall to employ more officers to ‘insure the security of our citizens’ ->
Whether the crime rate goes up or down the added cops must find value for themselves in the yearly budget ->
Cops catch minor traffic violations for substantial fines
In the view of law enforcement it appears putting forth considerable effort to catch serious criminals is almost counter productive.

52

[QUOTE=Sitnam]
What disturbs me is the loop:

Cops catch minor traffic violations for substantial fines ->
The generated income allows City Hall to employ more officers to ‘insure the security of our citizens’ ->
Whether the crime rate goes up or down the added cops must find value for themselves in the yearly budget ->
Cops catch minor traffic violations for substantial fines
In the view of law enforcement it appears putting forth considerable effort to catch serious criminals is almost counter productive.
[/QUOTE]
I’ll try to be polite. You’re a fucking idiot. To allege that LEOs favor revenue gathering over clearing crime is laughably absurd. In a small, Mayberry type town, traffic violations are going to be the primary infraction cited, along with Otis getting locked up for PD. Do you actually mean to allege that in, say, Philadelphia, the majority of forces are concentrated in Highway Patrol, as opposed to Homicide, Sex Crime, and other divisions? Cite your specific municipal entity with a link, and I’ll read it.

53

The alternative to cops enforcing the (usually reasonable) speed limit laws is to have damned speed bumps seemingly every block or so. That’s the route they took in most of Mexico. I’d rather have the cops any day.

Let’s not get into corruption amongst Mexican cops – that’s a different issue.

54

And then there are the speed bumps at my school. The speed limit is 25, but the speed bumps are so huge that unless you drive an SUV or a truck you have to slow down to 15 to avoid damage to your car. If you do drive an SUV or a truck, you can bounce right over them and hardly feel it.

55

[QUOTE=danceswithcats]
I’ll try to be polite. You’re a fucking idiot. To allege that LEOs favor revenue gathering over clearing crime is laughably absurd.
[/QUOTE]

So absurd that you then cite an example where it’s common by your own admission.

[QUOTE=danceswithcats]
In a small, Mayberry type town, traffic violations are going to be the primary infraction cited, along with Otis getting locked up for PD.
[/QUOTE]

Who’s the fucking idiot?

56

[QUOTE=Sitnam]
So absurd that you then cite an example where it’s common by your own admission.

Who’s the fucking idiot?
[/QUOTE]

Read for comprehension–he cites it as being only common in small one-cop towns where the biggest criminal offense is public drunkenness.

If you didn’t know what kind of town that (fictional) “Mayberry” was, hit wikipedia. That’s what it’s there for.

57

[QUOTE=Zeriel]
Read for comprehension–he cites it as being only common in small one-cop towns where the biggest criminal offense is public drunkenness.

If you didn’t know what kind of town that (fictional) “Mayberry” was, hit wikipedia. That’s what it’s there for.
[/QUOTE]

The crime rate itself is irrelevant. If the rate is high it will be argued that there should be an increase of officers. If the rate is low it will be argued that the current number of officers are doing a good job and should be retained. Ultimately, the limit of police in any given area (Philadelphia or Mayberry) is a product of budget not efficiency. I respect the profession and I’m not saying the police are in anyway crooked it’s simply that what you have is a system of rewards dependent on finance not justice. And to quote one of the best games of all time:

“The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy”

58

[QUOTE=askeptic]
Every cop who has pulled me over has been curteous and professional (now that I am an adult) and I respond in kind. The last ticket I got (about 6 months ago) the cop was so nice that I wrote a letter of commendation to his commander, despite the fact that he gave me a ticket. He pointed out what I had done wrong. I conceeded that he was correct. He gave me a ticket. I thanked him. He thanked me for not giving him any trouble. We went our seperate ways. I paid the ticket.
[/QUOTE]

I try to be scrupulously courteous to officers. For one thing, it’s entirely possible that the person they pull over could be a gun-toting maniac, so the act of walking over to my car is much more courageous than anything I do on a given day. (Although I have to believe they probably aren’t too worried once they see me in the driver’s seat.) For another, if there are any brownie points to be won, I’d like to win them.

Courtesy didn’t help me any in Dooley County, GA. I was driving from my home in FL to have Thanksgiving with a friend who lived in GA. The speed limit was 65. I was singing along with my Mary Poppins cd and traveling between 71 and 75 mph (typical speed for me in a 65 mph zone) when I saw lights in my mirror. I immediately pulled over and figured that I had been fairly caught. I was polite and even sympathetic, given that this officer was hard at work on Thanksgiving morning when there were probably other places he would rather be.

When the officer told me he had clocked me at 92, my eyes grew huge. I honestly figured I’d misheard him; perhaps I hadn’t been paying attention and drifted up to 82, although even that was not likely. I drive a Toyota Corolla. If anyone has successfully coaxed a Corolla up to 92 I’d like to hear about it. But he wrote out a ticket for 92 mph in a 65 zone. I thanked him courteously, and proceeded on my way.

Shock wore off and indignation wore on. I decided to fight the ticket. Naively, I still figured the 92 was an honest error on someone’s part - perhaps they had clocked the black Honda who had breezed by me in the left lane and mistook him for me? I called a lawyer who practiced in Vienna (which is not pronounced the way I thought it would be) and asked for assistance. When he heard it was Dooley County he laughed and said to just pay the ticket. He said out-of-state tickets were a major source of revenue for the County and that the judge there was a crooked sumbitch who would screw anyone who challenged him any way he could.

But I was indignant and hardheaded so I took a day off work to drive up and fight the power. The judge had a benign, grandfatherly air, and he gently counseled the drivers ahead of me in line to simply pay up the ticket because the stretch on which they were ticketed was now a construction zone so if they tried to fight the ticket, he would be forced to double the $300+ fine. (It had not been a construction zone the days those tickets were issued.) They paid up.

I entered my plea and requested a bench trial. Grandfatherly judge looked mildly surprised and reproachfully informed me that I would have to return in several months’ time for the trial.

In the meantime, I requested the laser calibration records from the police. Oddly enough, despite my repeated requests, no one had time to send these records to me before my court date, several months later. As the date approached, I called the court and explained that I still wished to stand trial but that the police had not yet provided me with the relevant evidence I had requested. Would it be possible to receive a deferment? Yes, of course I could request a deferment. In person.

I gave up and paid the ticket. Thereafter, when traveling through Dooley County, I would sit in the right hand lane with my cruise control set at 1 mph below the speed limit. I still advise my fellow travelers on I-75 to do the same.

That was six years ago. I wonder if that grandfatherly judge is dead yet. The cop was younger, so he’s probably still kicking around. I don’t wish him well either, though.