# Pseudoephedrine (PSE) laws, specifically AR **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 11, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641 "2009-07-11T03:25:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/1 "2009-07-11T03:25:51Z")
Having browsed the Arkansas Board of Pharmacy website, Google, and the FDA website, I can’t find any information to support my quest. Recently, I got called into the district manager’s office and got my ass CHEWED for denying PSE sales to people. These reasons ranged from: Turning out-of-towners away (we are right on the interstate, and if you are coming from more than 15 miles away in any direction, you have passed another walmart, let alone another drugstore. People driving in from Benton to Little Rock (about a 15 minute drive) have passed a grand total of 3 other walmarts, and a Sam’s Club, specifically, if they have a preference for retailer. Turning people away who have more than one ID, which happens fairly frequently, at least once every couple weeks. Turning people away who are buying it for someone else - my take on this is that you can’t do the same for cigarettes or alcohol, why should they for a more controlled substance? Turning people away when they have a health condition that precludes them using PSE (like the lady who cut in front of everyone in line and told me she had heart problems and couldn’t wait in line) And finally, turning people away because they’re part of a PSE caravan, like if two people with the same address come to buy it back to back. Note that none of this applies to any product other than 12-hour or 24-hour Sudafed and their generics. If someone wants to make meth with a product with antihistamines and analgesics in it, be my guest. That, and the only real clinical use for 24-hour Sudafed IS making meth. For the record, the pharmacists I work with support this, but I don’t have room to set a toe out of line at work anyway, and the other people at work are at this point not subject to any of the restrictions put on me. AND SO THE QUESTION, finally: Missouri’s board of pharmacy has some clause somewhere on the internet that people can be refused PSE if the person selling it believes it will be used for illicit purposes. Where can I find such information about my state? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/2 "2009-07-11T04:07:25Z")
See … [ul] [li][Pseudoephedrine - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoephedrine#United_States%5B/li%5D%5Bli%5Dhttp://organizedwisdom.com/Pseudoephedrine_Laws%5B/li%5D%5B/ul%5D) ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/3 "2009-07-11T04:47:30Z")
Why would you turn away someone from ‘out of town?’ Maybe they work close to that store or are visiting someone in that area? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/4 "2009-07-11T05:38:21Z")
If I had a sinus headache and you denied me the purchase I would be unhappy. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/5 "2009-07-11T07:24:13Z")
In all likelyhood you’re not getting chewed out 'cause you violated some law, you’re getting chewed out because you’re turning away potential sales. Especially like Walmart which prides itself on, “you can pick up your prescription at ANY Walmart.” Something I found extremely useful when I traveled for work. It was nice to go to the Walmart in Indianapolis and tell them I need my prescription filled and then drive down to Dothan, Alabama and pick up the prescription there. They are probably somehow seeing how many sales you’re missing and are upset. From the stores point of view unless the store can be easily held liable, it’s not your problem to police the world. ---
**Author:** ![bluezooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@bluezooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluezooky)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/6 "2009-07-11T12:20:26Z")
“Note that none of this applies to any product other than 12-hour or 24-hour Sudafed and their generics. If someone wants to make meth with a product with antihistamines and analgesics in it, be my guest. That, and the only real clinical use for 24-hour Sudafed IS making meth.” I can’t deny it’s illegal use in drug manufacturer however you might as well sell me a sugar pill instead of Sudafed with Phenylephrine, it has absolutely zero effect on my personal nasal passages, to say everyone who asks for full strength Sudafed is a drug maker is just ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/7 "2009-07-11T12:27:30Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > In all likelyhood you’re not getting chewed out 'cause you violated some law, you’re getting chewed out because you’re turning away potential sales. > > Especially like Walmart which prides itself on, “you can pick up your prescription at ANY Walmart.” Something I found extremely useful when I traveled for work. It was nice to go to the Walmart in Indianapolis and tell them I need my prescription filled and then drive down to Dothan, Alabama and pick up the prescription there. > > They are probably somehow seeing how many sales you’re missing and are upset. From the stores point of view unless the store can be easily held liable, it’s not your problem to police the world. Exactly. Even if there is a law saying you _can_ turn away people, it will not say that you _have_ to, so a legal defense will likely not work. I’m not certain, but I believe Arkansas is one of those states where they can fire you for whatever reason, but, even if they can’t, they can gripe at you as much as they want. Arkansas may be doing fairly well in this recession, but finding another job is still somewhat difficult. I’d advise you to be careful. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/8 "2009-07-11T12:54:41Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Why would you turn away someone from ‘out of town?’ Maybe they work close to that store or are visiting someone in that area? I think the idea is that, since you can only buy a small amount at a time, they may be traveling between cities or even states to be able to buy enough to make a batch of meth with. ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/9 "2009-07-11T15:09:58Z")
> [@bluezooky](#): > > “Note that none of this applies to any product other than 12-hour or 24-hour Sudafed and their generics. If someone wants to make meth with a product with antihistamines and analgesics in it, be my guest. That, and the only real clinical use for 24-hour Sudafed IS making meth.” > > I can’t deny it’s illegal use in drug manufacturer however you might as well sell me a sugar pill instead of Sudafed with Phenylephrine, it has absolutely zero effect on my personal nasal passages, to say everyone who asks for full strength Sudafed is a drug maker is just ridiculous. Again, don’t care about any product besides the 12-hour and 24-hour Sudafed. Buy the red tablets all day long, or at least be in the system from having prescriptions filled or SOMETHING. For the record, all of my coworkers and pharmacists are up in arms about this also, but on my side. Maybe this just isn’t an issue that translates into discussion with people who don’t work in a pharmacy. Saying that we get 20 people a day who have clearly been using meth wanting 24-hour Sudafed is probably an understatement. And I’m not worried about the profit, we are talking something that costs 7 dollar a box and makes maybe 2 dollars profit. And we’re already the biggest department as far as sales are concerned. ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/10 "2009-07-11T15:16:02Z")
And sorry about the double post, but part of this frustration comes from working first in a store where we literally stalled Sudafed people, called the drug task force people, and had an arrest every week or two in the parking lot, to going to a store where they just don’t carry 12 or 24 hour Sudafed, except for prescriptions, to a store where they can’t figure out WHAT they want to do. Short of playing fun mind games with people who ask for the “Equate sinus and allergy” getting generic Claritin-D, I don’t have any way to combat this. With regards to the “watch your back” comment, I haven’t ever been in any major trouble before at work, and according to the “productivity report” I printed out, which lists the three categories of tech positions (Drop-Off, Input, and Fill), I am #1 in two of those, and 6 away from 2nd in filling out of about 10 techs. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/11 "2009-07-11T19:25:42Z")
Is your district manager a pharmacist? It seems like the lead pharmacist needs to set the tone with store management about how your pharmacy is going to comply with the law and any code of ethics the pharmacist needs to uphold in supervising the pharmacy. Store management may not be aware of how complex this issue is. One argument you might want to make is that some customers will not respond positively to your store getting a reputation as a meth-friendly venue. Sure, some will, but some won’t. I know I don’t want to wait in line at the pharmacy behind some “caravan” of 4 people buying their box of Sudafed. On the other hand, store management is going to want to sell in as many instances as it can without alienating other customers, incurring legal liability for noncompliance, or (perhaps) creating an environment where it can’t retain pharmacists. So you may wind up needing to sell in some cases when you would prefer not to. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/12 "2009-07-11T20:43:48Z")
Not selling to someone just because you’ve determined how many other stores they passed on the way to get to your store is ridiculous. Maybe they have valid, none of your business reasons for not shopping at those other stores, even other stores of the same chain. > [@](#): > > Turning people away who are buying it for someone else - my take on this is that you can’t do the same for cigarettes or alcohol, why should they for a more controlled substance? You can’t buy cigs or alcohol for other people? Since when? I know you can’t buy it for minors, but not for anyone? Wow, guess anybody throwing a party better make sure it’s BYOB. As for buying medicine for someone else, wow, it must suck when someone’s out buying for their sick in bed loved one and they run across a drug-nazi, “NO PILLS FOR YOU!” > [@](#): > > And finally, turning people away because they’re part of a PSE caravan, like if two people with the same address come to buy it back to back. Yeah, people at the same address could never be passing an illness around and both actually, ya know, need the same medication… ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/13 "2009-07-11T21:20:29Z")
> [@chaoticbear](#): > > Turning out-of-towners away (we are right on the interstate, and if you are coming from more than 15 miles away in any direction, you have passed another walmart, let alone another drugstore. People driving in from Benton to Little Rock (about a 15 minute drive) have passed a grand total of 3 other walmarts, and a Sam’s Club, specifically, if they have a preference for retailer. I have to take issue with this - when I worked in Chicago I used to pick up medications at the drugstore near my work in the Loop _despite_ living in Indiana (you know, a whole different state) _because it was convenient_ as then I did not have to go out of my way on the way home to get something. Now, I am _well_ away that meth addicts will play games with retailers, but the mere fact someone is from out of town, or _could_ have stopped elsewhere does not automatically make them a druggy. > [@](#): > > Turning people away who are buying it for someone else - my take on this is that you can’t do the same for cigarettes or alcohol, why should they for a more controlled substance? WTF? You can’t buy alcohol for someone else (assuming they are of legal age)? Since WHEN? You’re shitting me, right? Is that the law in Arkanas? I might except that in _Utah_, but anywhere else? I can’t buy cigarettes for someone else? (Not that I would anyhow…) Gee, guess my parents should be jailed for all the times they bought packs for each other. For that matter, there doesn’t seem to be an issue with my picking up my husband’s narcotic pain pills, either. That’s just… bizarre. Is that how Arkansas works? What about disabled people who find it nearly impossible to get to a pharmacy, do they just go without their medications? Seems a little cruel, but OK… > [@](#): > > AND SO THE QUESTION, finally: Missouri’s board of pharmacy has some clause somewhere on the internet that people can be refused PSE if the person selling it believes it will be used for illicit purposes. Where can I find such information about my state? Well, yes, that does make sense, but I’m not entirely sure all your criteria are valid in making that assessment. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/14 "2009-07-11T21:34:55Z")
Are these customers coming up clear on MethMonitor or LeadOnLabs? If so, you probably can’t do much. Hate to say it, as much as I’m on your side, but the onus is on the customer - they’re signing the log, and if they’re giving incorrect or misleading statements, they can face felony charges. However, if you suspect the customers are up to no good, you (meaning the pharmacy) are required to file a written report per _Arkansas Code § 5-64-1006 (a)_. Your employer has a choice - turn away suspicious customers or file lots of paperwork. For more specifics and official guidance, I’d recommend contacting the [Arkansas State Board of Pharmacy](http://www.arkansas.gov/asbp/about-staff-bio.html). ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/15 "2009-07-11T21:45:16Z")
I think that everyone here is missing the point. YOU DO NOT NEED 24 HOUR SUDAFED FOR ANY LEGITIMATE MEDICAL PURPOSE. The end. In fact, the one time in 4 years I’ve seen anyone need it for a chronic illness (fluid that leaked into the ears constantly), she did what any sane person would do, got a prescription. And even then, she couldn’t tolerate a daily dose, rather she just took it every other day. If you are coming in from out of state, and do not have any of the classic signs of meth production or use, you aren’t coming in to buy the cold medicine that I’m talking about. And the comment about “buying it for someone else” is because there is a quantity restriction on the drugs. Someone who is bed-ridden and sick is going to have more problems than sinus congestion, and should be under a doctor’s care. Having a sinus headache isn’t going to make you unable to get out of bed. I suppose any answers to this question are not going to matter, as everyone would rather dogpile me instead. ---
**Author:** ![Cornelius\_Tuggerson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Cornelius\_Tuggerson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cornelius_Tuggerson)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/16 "2009-07-11T21:55:40Z")
You probably got chewed out for poor customer service more then anything else, you don’t come off as a very friendly guy. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/17 "2009-07-11T22:31:19Z")
> [@chaoticbear](#): > > YOU DO NOT NEED 24 HOUR SUDAFED FOR ANY LEGITIMATE MEDICAL PURPOSE. Are you a doctor? Or a pharmacist? ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/18 "2009-07-11T23:06:26Z")
I am curious as to why they bother making 24 hour Sudafed if it has no legitimate reason to exist. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![tsm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/db5fbb/32.png) [@tsm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsm)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/19 "2009-07-11T23:25:08Z")
> [@whiterabbit](#): > > I am curious as to why they bother making 24 hour Sudafed if it has no legitimate reason to exist. Seriously. Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Obviously someone thinks there is a need for it. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641/20 "2009-07-11T23:35:25Z")
I just looked through these [regulations](http://www.namsdl.org/resources/Pseudoephedrine%20Products%20Overview%20-%20November%202006%20Revised%20Version.pdf) (PDF) and found nothing allowing a seller to deny a sale based on their determination on whether or not an OTC product has a legitimate medical use. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoephedrine-pse-laws-specifically-ar/502641.md?page=2)