# Pseudoscience/See what it gets us/Badly blistered feet/upset us... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 7, 2001, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoscience-see-what-it-gets-us-badly-blistered-feet-upset-us/85868 "2001-10-07T02:10:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoscience-see-what-it-gets-us-badly-blistered-feet-upset-us/85868/1 "2001-10-07T02:10:48Z")
\*Pseudoscience See what it gets us; Burned and blistered Feet upset us When it’s caused by new-age zealots Firewalking. Burn your feet off Burn your feet off Burn your feet off at Burger King… \* See this link for a perfect example of [evolution in action](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20011006/aponline153411_000.htm) Apparently in some sort of idiot scheme, a bunch of Burger King marketing drones went through a firewalking ritual in order to promote “bonding”. A dozen or so of them torched their feet (first and second degree burns). From the article:\*\* > [@](#): > > A certified instructor, Kallen has led thousands of participants over coals that can be as hot as 1,200 degrees. \*\* I’ll tell ya what: heat a 100 foot long, two inch thick sheet of steel to 1200 degrees and if Kallen can walk over it, I’ll give $100 to the charity of his choice. I’m disgusted with this scam. And what’s even worse…people walk over coals single file in every one of these stunts I’ve ever seen. So the first one gets rushed to the hospital, and the next one says “Garwsh! Thet looks like FUN! I’ll give it a go!” and when he gets rushed away, the next one steps up and tries. And this happens 10 more times!? With this sort of brainpower, I now understand the reason for some of Burger King’s ad campaigns. The employees had to sign waivers before doing this. Can you imagine the scene? **Burger King Marketing Drone:** Are you sure there’s no danger? **Evil New-Age Huckster:** “Yes! Really! It’s _perfectly_ safe. Couldn’t be safer in your mother’s arms. Now sign this waiver of liability in case you’re crippled or something.” **::Offscreen::** _EEEEEEE!! OH GOD! THE PAIN!! HELP! MY FEET! MAKE IT STOP! Aaaiiiiieeee[sup]eeee[/sup]!_ **::Back on screen::** **Burger King Marketing Drone:** Oh. Ok. As long as it’s safe. :rolleyes: If I were Burger King management, I’d use this as an intelligence test: follow stupid orders to perform potentially dangerous pseudoscience, get fired on the spot. What’s firewalking supposed to prove, anyway? Other than the fact that coals have a low specific heat and don’t transmit heat very well (although in this case, they seemed strangely effective)? And that a fool and his money are soon parted? (Yeah, I know Cecil’s done a column on this. I still don’t understand what firewalking’s supposed to prove.) \*\* > [@](#): > > Dana Frydman, vice president of product marketing for Burger King, was injured but had no regrets about the event she helped organize. > > “It made you feel a sense of empowerment,” Frydman said, “and that you can accomplish anything.” \*\* Including accomplishing the chance to make your insurance company shell out big bucks for skin grafts. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoscience-see-what-it-gets-us-badly-blistered-feet-upset-us/85868/2 "2001-10-07T02:28:57Z")
Oh, well, you see the ones who were burned didn’t have _faith_. ---
**Author:** ![Persephone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@Persephone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Persephone)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoscience-see-what-it-gets-us-badly-blistered-feet-upset-us/85868/3 "2001-10-07T02:34:50Z")
Wait a minute. Dana **Frydman**? Got injured _firewalking_? Oh, the irony. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoscience-see-what-it-gets-us-badly-blistered-feet-upset-us/85868/4 "2001-10-07T02:36:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Some workers used wheelchairs the next day when they went to the airport to leave for another company retreat. “Welcome to the beautiful tropical island of Bora-Pago-Bimini, where we’ll beginning the next phase of this year’s Marketing Retreat! We’ll just have the hotel bellmen wheel everybody over to the main lawn adjoining the swimming pool, and then our facilitator, Mr. Grubbs will crack all of you on the knees with a fifteen-pond sledge hammer. Has everyone signed their waivers? Good! And don’t forget, we have a special treat lined up for you tomorrow! The seven regional winners of our Most Effective Counter Persons comptetition for the year 2000-2001 have been invited to join us, and we’ll be casting them into the volcano in the center of the island just at noon!” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoscience-see-what-it-gets-us-badly-blistered-feet-upset-us/85868/5 "2001-10-07T02:38:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Some workers used wheelchairs the next day when they went to the airport to leave for another company retreat. “Welcome to the beautiful tropical island of Bora-Pago-Bimini, where we’ll beginning the next phase of this year’s Marketing Retreat! We’ll just have the hotel bellmen wheel everybody over to the main lawn adjoining the swimming pool, and then our facilitator, Mr. Grubbs\*\*,\*\* will crack all of you on the knees with a fifteen- **pound** sledge hammer. Has everyone signed their waivers? Good! And don’t forget, we have a special treat lined up for you tomorrow! The seven regional winners of our Most Effective Counter Persons comptetition for the year 2000-2001 have been invited to join us, and we’ll be casting them into the volcano in the center of the island just at noon!” ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoscience-see-what-it-gets-us-badly-blistered-feet-upset-us/85868/6 "2001-10-07T02:52:03Z")
See, I think they were just trying to get a sense of what it’s like to be a flamed-broiled Whopper. ---
**Author:** ![Nymysys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f6c823/32.png) [@Nymysys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nymysys)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoscience-see-what-it-gets-us-badly-blistered-feet-upset-us/85868/7 "2001-10-07T03:14:51Z")
I have absolutely nothing to add to this, other than my sense of sick justice has somehow been reaffirmed. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoscience-see-what-it-gets-us-badly-blistered-feet-upset-us/85868/8 "2001-10-07T03:55:38Z")
Firewalking is the penalty for those that failed their elementary physics class. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoscience-see-what-it-gets-us-badly-blistered-feet-upset-us/85868/9 "2001-10-07T04:16:45Z")
Ha! I found a _better_ link, with niftier quotes! 😃 > **[Miami.com Food, Tourism, Clubs & Travel News | Miami Herald](https://www.miamiherald.com/miami-com/)** > [@](#): > > ``It was a great experience for everyone,’’ said Dana Frydman, vice president of product marketing for Burger King **and one of the event’s organizers.** It’s her party so she can’t cry even if she wants to. > [@](#): > > ``It made you feel a sense of empowerment and that you can accomplish anything,’’ said Frydman, **who was in Memphis Friday for the next Burger King retreat.** So, she re-upped for the next one? Dana, can you say, “natural selection event”? > [@](#): > > She said the pain in her feet had subsided. ``It’s really about mind over matter.’’ As in, “My mind doesn’t matter”. But wait, there’s more! > [@](#): > > Burger King employees used their bare hands to bend spoons, break boards and smash bricks. Some bent steel bars with their throats and walked over a board of 6,000 sharp nails. Somehow this confirms everything I ever suspected about pointy-haired management types. I’m betting that at least one of these people has an Etch-A-Sketch for a laptop. > [@](#): > > `Nobody has ever been able to document that it has any impact on a person's work or the overall performance of an organization,'' said [Bob] Preziosi, [*professor of management with the Wayne Huizenga School of Business at Nova Southeastern University*] who specializes in team-building and executive leadership. `There are people who have little or no athletic skill and they don’t feel comfortable with these activities. But they go along with it although they may be very anxious or unhappy about it.’’ > > `The possibility of physical injury is too great,'' Preziosi said. `You can certainly help employees develop courage and build teamwork without having them walk on coals.’’ Well, [sub]disdainful sniff[/sub] it’s plain to see that _Bob_ will never get very far at Burger King… > [@](#): > > `You're walking over hot coals, and something can happen,'' said Robert `Cork’’ Kallen, [_he’s “a certified instructor” it says, whatever that means_] owner of The Achievement Group, which ran the event for Burger King [_who paid Kallen $15,000 for this, BTW_]. ``The majority of the people get through it without a nick or a blister. When you see over 100 people and only 10 to 15 people have blisters, I don’t term that unusual." So, going in, he tells them, “Okay, now, 10 to 15 of you aren’t going to survive this, but that’s okay, because the survivors will have bonded in a truly rare and precious way.” And they _still_ do it. And a final word from Mr. Compassionate: > [@](#): > > `I wish it didn't happen,'' said Kallen, who has been firewalking since 1992 and operates his company from Philadelphia and Miami Beach. `Some people just have incredibly sensitive feet.’’ I guess he means Mildred Morse, who was the one who had to go to the emergency room, and was hospitalized overnight. Here’s a website from another company that does this sort of thing. [http://www.insightdevelopment.com/index.cfm?contentID=51](http://www.insightdevelopment.com/index.cfm?contentID=51) See the happy smiling faces? See the final quote? > [@](#): > > Don’t ask how it works - I don’t know. Don’t ask what the “trick” is - there isn’t any. Through some twist of nature, it does not hurt to walk on hot coals. All you need to do train yourself to believe that you can do it. It’s quite an experience. Mildred must not have clapped her hands hard enough for Tinkerbell. And I’ll leave ya’ll with some perfectly splendid glurge from yet another corporate practitioner. > **[Stagen](https://stagen.com/)** > > Discover how playing the long game can unlock your leadership potential. > [@](#): > > Breakthrough Team Building Workshop > All audiences > 2 hours: Experiential Activity > > In this mind-expanding program, Rand Stagen guides participants through a visceral experience of how it feels to support and be supported 101% while facing and overcoming challenges together. This exhilarating experiential workshop encourages participants to move outside the world of “perceived” possibilities through the unusual activity of bending steel bars Volunteers are given the opportunity for “breakthough team” success by facing and overcoming an obstacle that appears to be impossible. > > The paradigm-shifting lessons that are gained through this experiential activity deal with conditioned “limiting beliefs” and perceptions and how to go beyond them, the danger of focusing on the obstacle and the power of focusing single-pointedly on the goal, how trust influences the performance of teams, how it feels to be supported and to give support to teammates, and how to share in and benefit from others’ wins. The result of this dynamic, interactive workshop is more motivated, productive, and effective work teams. > > The Firewalk > Workshop - All audiences > 2 hours: Experiential Activity > > The firewalk is considered to be one of the most powerful, transformative workshops available for corporate teams. In this truly amazing program, the activity of walking across burning hot coals barefooted is used as a teaching method to help people access their own inner source of inspiration and express their highest potential. In terms of inspiring and bonding a team together, the firewalk experience is unparalleled. > > Certified Firewalk Instructor Rand Stagen is one of the country’s leading corporate firewalk trainers with a perfect safety record, having conducted hundreds of events of this kind over an 8-year period. Participants enjoy and benefit from the exhilarating experience whether they choose to walk, or simply support those who do. The firewalk experience is a powerful, compelling metaphor for overcoming obstacles, limitations, or fear (of any kind). During the post-firewalk discussion, Rand helps participants to integrate their experience by weaving in powerful lessons, insight, and specific methods to integrate these profound paradigm-shifts into the teams’ organizational goals and work life. There, now, ya’ll just saved yourselves $15,000 and a trip to the emergency room. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoscience-see-what-it-gets-us-badly-blistered-feet-upset-us/85868/10 "2001-10-07T04:41:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > \*\*Ha! I found a _better_ link, with niftier quotes! > \*\* Well, of course you did! 😉 \*\* [quote] But wait, there’s more! > [@](#): > > Burger King employees used their bare hands to bend spoons, break boards and smash bricks. Some bent steel bars with their throats and walked over a board of 6,000 sharp nails. \*\* Of course, those of us who’ve learned that “the secret is to bang the rocks together” and have mastered tool-use can use things like hammers to smash bricks and vicegrips and pliers to bend metal bars and spoons, should we be in a straight-spoon or intact-brick related crisis, thus preserving our appendages for more delicate work, like typing and (in the case of throats) breathing and holding our heads up. We also know that the best way to deal with a board of 6000 sharp nails is to walk around it, or flip it over. Fenris, who’s also never understood why Uri has such a hatred for kitchen utensils. ---
**Author:** ![saepiroth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@saepiroth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saepiroth)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoscience-see-what-it-gets-us-badly-blistered-feet-upset-us/85868/11 "2001-10-07T04:53:56Z")
i always preferred the “pick up the board and buy it in the goddamn stupid instructor’s head” path, but hey, thats just me… ---
**Author:** ![saepiroth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@saepiroth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saepiroth)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoscience-see-what-it-gets-us-badly-blistered-feet-upset-us/85868/12 "2001-10-07T04:57:41Z")
buy = bury ---
**Author:** ![shell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/46a35a/32.png) [@shell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shell)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoscience-see-what-it-gets-us-badly-blistered-feet-upset-us/85868/13 "2001-10-07T05:12:38Z")
I knew there was a reason I stuck with White Castle. ---
**Author:** ![ignatzmouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b2d939/32.png) [@ignatzmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignatzmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoscience-see-what-it-gets-us-badly-blistered-feet-upset-us/85868/14 "2001-10-07T05:55:27Z")
> [@](#): > > And what’s even worse…people walk over coals single file in every one of these stunts I’ve ever seen. So the first one gets rushed to the hospital, and the next one says “Garwsh! Thet looks like FUN! I’ll give it a go!” and when he gets rushed away, the next one steps up and tries. And this happens 10 more times!? In defense of the employees, I think they were only stupid to go along with the stupid stunt in the first place. When I have seen these things on the TV, the people seem to move in a line at a fast and steady pace (smart, assuming that you have some REASON to be walking on hot coals). I don’t think the burns would appear or be felt until a number of seconds after the brief firewalk. By that time, at least ten other victims would likely already be on the coals. Clearly the “bonding experience” here was meant to be: “You are bonded to Burger King. What we command, you will do. BEND SPOONS NOW! SMASH BRICKS! SEAR AND PUNCTURE YOUR FEET!” How empowering. ---
**Author:** ![Dijon\_Warlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9a28c/32.png) [@Dijon\_Warlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dijon_Warlock)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoscience-see-what-it-gets-us-badly-blistered-feet-upset-us/85868/15 "2001-10-07T06:13:07Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Fenris \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Of course, those of us who’ve learned that “the secret is to bang the rocks together” and have mastered tool-use can use things like hammers to smash bricks and vicegrips and pliers to bend metal bars and spoons, should we be in a straight-spoon or intact-brick related crisis, thus preserving our appendages for more delicate work, like typing and (in the case of throats) breathing and holding our heads up. We also know that the best way to deal with a board of 6000 sharp nails is to walk around it, or flip it over.\*\* Well, yeah, you _could_ do all that, but it wouldn’t be empowering, now would it? ---
**Author:** ![jmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmonster)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoscience-see-what-it-gets-us-badly-blistered-feet-upset-us/85868/16 "2001-10-07T07:05:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > [http://www.stagen.com/](http://www.stagen.com/) > > > [@](#): > > > > Breakthrough Team Building Workshop > > All audiences > > 2 hours: Experiential Activity > > > > In this mind-expanding program, Rand Stagen guides participants through a visceral experience of how it feels to support and be supported 101% while facing and overcoming challenges together. This exhilarating experiential workshop encourages participants to move outside the world of “perceived” possibilities through the unusual activity of bending steel bars Volunteers are given the opportunity for “breakthough team” success by facing and overcoming an obstacle that appears to be impossible. > > > > The paradigm-shifting lessons that are gained through this experiential activity deal with conditioned “limiting beliefs” and perceptions and how to go beyond them, the danger of focusing on the obstacle and the power of focusing single-pointedly on the goal, how trust influences the performance of teams, how it feels to be supported and to give support to teammates, and how to share in and benefit from others’ wins. The result of this dynamic, interactive workshop is more motivated, productive, and effective work teams. > > > > The Firewalk > > Workshop - All audiences > > 2 hours: Experiential Activity > > > > The firewalk is considered to be one of the most powerful, transformative workshops available for corporate teams. In this truly amazing program, the activity of walking across burning hot coals barefooted is used as a teaching method to help people access their own inner source of inspiration and express their highest potential. In terms of inspiring and bonding a team together, the firewalk experience is unparalleled. > > > > Certified Firewalk Instructor Rand Stagen is one of the country’s leading corporate firewalk trainers with a perfect safety record, having conducted hundreds of events of this kind over an 8-year period. Participants enjoy and benefit from the exhilarating experience whether they choose to walk, or simply support those who do. The firewalk experience is a powerful, compelling metaphor for overcoming obstacles, limitations, or fear (of any kind). During the post-firewalk discussion, Rand helps participants to integrate their experience by weaving in powerful lessons, insight, and specific methods to integrate these profound paradigm-shifts into the teams’ organizational goals and work life. I like to think I’m able to read English pretty well. But there are all these words, see, but they don’t **mean** anything. It’s like I’m reading a rice cake. I really think that anyone who uses “paradigm-shift” more than once in a lifetime should be shot. Especially these people. But don’t forget about Thomas Kuhn. ---
**Author:** ![ignatzmouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b2d939/32.png) [@ignatzmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignatzmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2001, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pseudoscience-see-what-it-gets-us-badly-blistered-feet-upset-us/85868/17 "2001-10-07T07:16:58Z")
Awwww! Come on, give Thomas Kuhn a break. Admittedly, I haven’t read The Structure of Scientific Revolutions since high school, but at the time it seemed like a pretty good concept. Haven’t all these people just grabbed the word and started using in in all sorts of meaningless ways?