PSH [Philip Seymour Hoffman] has died; discuss drugs and addiction here

[crypto]

It would seem that you have tried to defend this “addiction is a disease” nonsense before. Addiction is a personal condition, but it’s not a disease.

@phouka

And yet, people do things that make it more likely they’ll develop cancer, like smoking, drinking, eating meat, becoming obese, or climbing into tanning beds. People diagnosed with Type II diabetes are often judged for their own personal failing regarding diet and exercise.

And how is this related to PSH taking heroin and dying because of his addiction? His addiction was NOT a disease. As for Type II diabetes, are you saying that people who don’t watch what they eat, don’t exercise, and don’t take care of themselves but have the ability to do so are victims of circumstances and have no personal responsibility for their condition? So if I eat 3 Whoppers every day for lunch and dinner, and don’t exercise, I’m not to be held responsible for my plight? If I have the ability to eat a proper meal and I am physically able to exercise and make conscious choices not to, isn’t that my fault for getting Type II diabetes? Sounds to me like in your world that’s not my fault. It’s a disease!

Who put that burger in my mouth? Who stuck that needle in PSH’s arm? People should be held accountable for their choices which lead to bad consequences.

@phouka

And yet, some populations are far more likely to develop addictions than others, just as Native Americans are more likely to suffer from alcoholism.

Developing addictions can happen to just about anyone, any race, sex, age, sexual orientation, or whatever other category you can divide people into. Addiction is NOT a disease. What does Native American Alcoholism rates have to do with anything here?

@phouka

And yet, most diseases, especially those diseases which riddle our modern populations, aren’t caused by one person sneezing on another. You don’t catch heart disease that way. Or Alzheimer’s.

No kidding. I think most people who read my “sneezing” comment didn’t take it literally. As you correctly point out, most diseases are not passed through a sneeze. That was a poor attempt at hyperbole. However, addiction is NOT a disease. Addiction is not “caught” by anyone. Addiction is the result of behavior that is often the choice of the person who is addicted. If someone is prescribed pain killers and becomes addicted to them, that’s a by-product of the medication and how it affects the brain. That’s not the fault of the person taking the medicine. However, if the person continues to seek that medication out once the medical need for the medication is over instead of weening themselves off of the medication with the help and supervision of a doctor, the person is taking the responsibility of being addicted to that medication by their actions.

@phouka

And yet, there are inheritable traits which cause one person to be more susceptible to an addiction than another.

Maybe. Maybe not. However, even if your premise is true, Addiction is NOT a disease.

@phouka

And yet, there are plenty of other diseases, like depression, OCD, and social phobia, whose primary treatment was once being told by others, “well, if you’d just choose to be happy/relaxed/not shy”.

And yet… What?

@phouka

And yet, people who commit suicide were once judged as cowards instead of understood as being in such a state of suffering, killing themselves was the better option.

And yet… What?

@phouka

And yet, there are physical changes in the brains of addicts which make it impossible to maintain emotional and physical homeostasis without either another fix or some heavy duty medical intervention.

And yet, your information blurbs don’t change the point: addiction is NOT a disease.

@phouka

The point here is that addiction is far more complicated than “well, if he’d just stood there and hadn’t injected smack in his veins, he wouldn’t be dead”, and that blaming and shaming addicts leads only to worse outcomes. The choice is not between “it’s his own damn fault” and “poor bastard, he had no control over his fate”. Successful treatment doesn’t start with “you asshole, stop doing H”.

That’s your point? Why didn’t you just say that? I can’t blame and shame PSH. HE’S DEAD. Maybe, if someone had the stones to get in his face and tell him he was risking his life, he’d still be here. You say “blaming and shaming addicts leads only to worse outcomes.” What’s worse than death? You seem to be trying to inject some rehab philosophy into this. I’m not talking about how to get someone to break their addiction. I’m talking about the idea that addiction is a disease. Addiction is NOT a disease.

@phouka

Demonizing addicts only leads to more deaths. Please stop doing it.

.

Yeah, you have me here. :rolleyes: demonizing addicts only leads to more deaths. I guess it’s a good thing no one said anything to PSH, then, right? Because it would have pushed him over the edge. Oh wait. He’s dead. And it would seem by his own hand. It would seem your idea of treating addicts as victims and having an illness just perpetuates the problem. After all, it’s not his fault he needed to pump heroin into his body. It was a disease. :rolleyes: :dubious:

Please.

I did not demonize addicts. If by saying that addiction is NOT a disease is demonizing addicts, you need to adjust your demonizing-meter.

I am not saying that addiction is not a real condition. I’m also not saying that it is exactly easy to break an addiction. However it can be and is done all the time.

How about this? Giving an addict an out by telling him that it is not his fault, but instead he suffers from a disease is not helping anyone except the burgeoning substance abuse/recovering industry. Doing this only leads to more deaths. Stop it.