# Psychic studies in college. Is liberal Europe more "enlightened" or less scientific? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568 "2003-09-09T17:27:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/1 "2003-09-09T17:27:15Z")
\*\* Telepathy Gets Academic Seal of Approval\*\* Mon Sep 8,10:37 AM ET STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - Sweden’s Lund University, one of the oldest seats of learning in Scandinavia, will take a leap into the unknown by appointing northern Europe’s first professor of parapsychology, hypnology and clairvoyance. [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=573&e=11&u=/nm/20030908/od\_nm/odd\_sweden\_telepathy\_dc](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=573&e=11&u=/nm/20030908/od_nm/odd_sweden_telepathy_dc) And the last paragraph of the article: “Utrecht University in the Netherlands and Scotland’s Edinburgh University also have chairs in parapsychology.” Do you think this a leap forward for science, or a giant step back to the past? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/2 "2003-09-09T17:43:50Z")
I suppose when they end up with zero results, they’ll quietly close down these departments. Pure silliness. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/3 "2003-09-09T18:01:40Z")
Eh—no sillier than U.S. universities that offer courses in “The Films of Sylvester Stallone” or “Barbie Studies.” [Yes, I just made those up, but you can find equally silly real ones] ---
**Author:** ![akrako1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@akrako1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akrako1)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/4 "2003-09-09T18:06:33Z")
How could it be less-scientific to study unexplainable phenomena? Ignorance, bias and close-mindedness seem to less scientific to me. Simply because something isn’t understood, and is thus associated a paranormal cause, does not exclude a valid scientific explanation. We might as well just keep assuming the world is flat and the center of the solar system - as that was ‘fact’ at some time, and the nay-sayers were pretty ‘silly’. ---
**Author:** ![akrako1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@akrako1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akrako1)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/5 "2003-09-09T18:20:15Z")
woops, meant ‘unexplained’ not ‘unexplainable’ ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/6 "2003-09-09T18:26:42Z")
What exactly isn’t understood? There’s no phenomena to study, since they all disappear as you look closely. If someone can come up with something to test then the study would make some sense. ---
**Author:** ![akrako1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@akrako1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akrako1)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/7 "2003-09-09T20:15:26Z")
Since there is some serious study being devoted to this area, I’d have to think that the correctness of your statement that ‘there’s no phenomena to study’ is not as decided as you’d like to think. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/8 "2003-09-09T20:29:27Z")
There’s been serious study for decades with no reproducible results. Those few reputable studies which have purported to show statistically significant results have never been duplicated, leading to the conclusion that either those studies were flawed somehow or there was outright fraud being perpetuated. Not to mention that no mechanism for “psychic” ability that explains all of it’s supposed properties has ever been put forth that fits within the parameters of known physics. it’s not electromagnetic, or we would have detected it by now. There’s only three other forces and the only other one that acts at a distance is gravitation, and that’s sure not it, weak as it is. Show me a study whose resluts can be duplicated consistently, and I’ll listen. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/9 "2003-09-09T20:44:45Z")
I think that the phenomena should be studied. If there’s something to it then it should be studied vigorously. If there’s nothing to be found then that should be studied as well. What makes up the various paranromal psychic phenomena? Even if it’s only a bunch of hysteria and conscams, it still deseres study. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/10 "2003-09-09T21:50:13Z")
Results from a survey published in Seed Trade News December 1999 (Ball Publishing, Batavia, Illinois.). The survey source was Thomas J Hoban, 1999. The question was “ordinary tomatoes do not contain genes while genetically modified ones do” The survey was done is several countries with the following results (n percent of responses): ``` false don't know true ``` Austria 34 22 44 Canada 52 33 15 Finland 44 27 29 France 32 39 29 Germany 36 20 44 Ireland 20 51 29 Italy 35 44 21 Netherlands 51 27 22 Spain 28 46 26 Sweden 46 24 30 UK 40 38 22 USA 45 45 10 ---
**Author:** ![Scarf-Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Scarf-Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarf-Ace)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/11 "2003-09-09T22:09:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Show me a study whose resluts can be duplicated consistently, and I’ll listen. Was that a Freudian slip? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/12 "2003-09-09T22:24:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*Eh—no sillier than U.S. universities that offer courses in “The Films of Sylvester Stallone” or “Barbie Studies.” > > [Yes, I just made those up, but you can find equally silly real ones] \*\* Like [Kepler College?](http://www.kepler.edu/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/13 "2003-09-09T22:25:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meta-Gumble \* > \*\*Was that a Freudian slip? \*\* Heh. Quite possibly. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/14 "2003-09-09T22:53:48Z")
Oh, great. Now Swedish college students are going to learn how to make other people’s heads explode telekinetically.\* We’re doomed! \*) Although the beginners might have to start off with communicating telepathically with fish. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/15 "2003-09-09T22:55:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > I suppose when they end up with zero results, they’ll quietly close down these departments. Why ? At least in the case of the [Edinburgh Unit](http://moebius.psy.ed.ac.uk/) the core funding is the Koestler bequest, which can’t be used for other purposes. The decision by the university in the 1980s to accept the bequest was controversial, but the argument that won out was that it was pure win-win from a research income point of view. Money they wouldn’t otherwise get their hands on. Nothing to do with the likelihood of the unit generating any useful positive results. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/16 "2003-09-10T00:07:53Z")
I’m all for giving a grant to study paranormal phenomena but teaching courses in it is a tad premature. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/17 "2003-09-10T00:27:47Z")
How exactly are they going to study something which doesn’t exist? Is this a magicians’ class or something? This is like a class on vampires or elves. What are they going to use for study subjects? ---
**Author:** ![Quitesane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/8dc957/32.png) [@Quitesane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quitesane)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/18 "2003-09-10T00:33:33Z")
The program in Sweden is financed by a private contributer who only wished to donate if the money was spent on reseach in paranormal phenomenons. The University of Copenhagen (Denmark) turned down the offer. I can’t imagine any serious universities spending money on these sorts of things if given alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/19 "2003-09-10T01:59:19Z")
You could just study them as phenomena w/o trying to study them for validity. I’d love to see a double-blind study where subjects were surveyed a little about themselves and about their ideas on paranormal psychic phenomena before and after seeing a live show by either a self-identified real psychic or a stage magician. and then survey them about what they witnessed. An assessment of what constitutes a “hit” in the minds of people who believe, disbelieve and don’t believe in paranormal psychic phenomena. Quite a number of aspects of these things to be studied. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568/20 "2003-09-10T02:59:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*How exactly are they going to study something which doesn’t exist? Is this a magicians’ class or something? This is like a class on vampires or elves. What are they going to use for study subjects? \*\* This is a ridiculous statement. This thinking is flawed as those who sign up for the courses. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychic-studies-in-college-is-liberal-europe-more-enlightened-or-less-scientific/200568.md?page=2)