# "Psychics" and terrorists. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 12, 2001, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182 "2001-09-12T22:36:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/1 "2001-09-12T22:36:28Z")
Have any “psychics” claimed to have predicted yesterday’s events? If so, do they have any proof that they really did so? If so, was the prediction specific or just a vague “I see a serious terrorist attack on the USA”? If no “psychics” made even a vague prediction (let alone a specific one), why would anyone ever listen to a single “psychic” ever again? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/2 "2001-09-12T23:04:26Z")
I’ll bet at least one psychic is going to try to pull off something like _The Sinking of the Titan_, and publish a prediction of the terrorist attacks with last week’s date stamped on it. ---
**Author:** ![Toaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@Toaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toaster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/3 "2001-09-12T23:22:57Z")
I haven’t heard any claims of that stuff…yet. Although, um, I was asleep at the time of the attack (was sick and sleeping late) and had a dream before wakin’ up at 11 in the morning New York Time, that I was in the region of the Potomac and there was fire and explosions and the sky was black with smoke, and the feeling of lots of death. 😕 I woke up and told my dream to my mother (no radio, no television was around), and then she told me that it was moderately true, and here’s proof I really am a psychic, blah de blah. Creepy. Yet I don’t believe in psychic-stuff, so feh. I give the psychic folk another day or two to make up their stories and pass 'em around. I wonder what Weekly World News and other little tabloids’ll have on the matter… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/4 "2001-09-12T23:27:13Z")
Jab, why would anyone trust a psychic in the first place? If I could ocntact the spirit world, I would ask the spirits for only nine bits of information: the first three official finishers in each of next year’s Triple Crown races. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/5 "2001-09-13T01:51:34Z")
Ed Dames, who is into _remote viewing_, claims that in a recent remote viewing session, he has managed to “see” the **the base of operations that the terrorists were operating out of** and has drawn a sketch of it. It’s on Art Bell’s website, at [http://www.artbell.com/letters21.html](http://www.artbell.com/letters21.html). Have at! ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/6 "2001-09-13T02:50:12Z")
Well, no “psychic” foresaw the Kennedy Assasination, the King Assasination, the Lockerbie Bombing, the TWA crash, the OKC bombing, the start of the Gulf War, the Soltys killings, the Colombine shootings, or, for that matter the outcome of the Presidential Election (even though they’d have had a 50% chance of sucess.) Even the mighty Nostradomus didn’t forsee it- the prediction currently being circulated says right on it that it was written in 1654, which is odd since Nosty kicked the bucket in 1566. Strange that good old reliable Sylvia Browne didn’t have a _thing_ to say about it, _just last week_… The “spirits” were apparently more preoccupied with bilirubin levels and Randi’s “left ventricle.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/7 "2001-09-13T04:07:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doc Nickel \* > \*\* > Even the mighty Nostradomus didn’t forsee it- the prediction currently being circulated says right on it that it was written in 1654, which is odd since Nosty kicked the bucket in 1566. > > \*\* Really? What’s the actual prediction? (I heard something about towers and metal birds?) I’m curious because on Tuesday a friend of mine at work (bookstore) said when something like this happens we’re going to get everyone coming in looking for Nostradomus. I did’t think anything else about it but today I go in and we’ve already sold out of anything we had on hand. And we got requests all day. From an emotional standpoint, I sympathise with people trying to grasp at something they think will help them make sense of a total horror. From a Fighting Ignorance standpoint I think- how pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/8 "2001-09-13T14:40:34Z")
I was at Sylvia Browne’s Web site yesterday. She’s got a pop-up that proclaims that she didn’t predict the 9/11 events because “she’s not omniscient.” Understatement of the century. ---
**Author:** ![More\_Cowbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@More\_Cowbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/More_Cowbell)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/9 "2001-09-13T14:46:43Z")
[Here](http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/cityofgod.html) you will find information about the Nostradamus email. I think it’s sad that people would perpetuate this kind of crap, no need to spread further misinformation. As for remote viewing, didn’t the goverment run a remote viewing operation from the mid 70’s to the mid 90’s with an unusually high success rate. I believe it was called Operation Stargate, but couldn’t find much information on it (saw it on a Discovery Channel Show). But knowing the base location sure didn’t help much, did it? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/10 "2001-09-13T15:17:37Z")
Mayor Quimby wrote: > [@](#): > > As for remote viewing, didn’t the goverment run a remote viewing operation from the mid 70’s to the mid 90’s with an unusually high success rate. I believe it was called Operation Stargate, but couldn’t find much information on it (saw it on a Discovery Channel Show). Ah, good old Discovery Channel. I remember a time when they, and their cohort The Learning Channel, showed programs besides pseudoscientific crackpot shows and _The Justice Files_. Here’s what a 5-year-old article in _The Skeptical Inquirer_ had to say about Stargate: [http://www.csicop.org/si/9603/claims.html](http://www.csicop.org/si/9603/claims.html) And here’s what _The Skeptic’s Dictionary_ says about it: [http://www.skepdic.com/remotevw.html](http://www.skepdic.com/remotevw.html) > [@](#): > > But knowing the base location sure didn’t help much, did it? Nope. Especially since Ed Dames didn’t do his “remote viewing” of the base until **after** the attack. Ed Dames’s picture kinda looks like one of the towers of the Taj Mahal, which would be a rather extravagant place for terrorists to hide their base of operations. I’ll bet that when their **real** base is found, Ed Dames will defend his drawing by saying, “But their base was in the same **country** as the Taj Mahal, wasn’t it?” ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/11 "2001-09-13T20:56:30Z")
[http://www.artbell.com/letters21.html](http://www.artbell.com/letters21.html). Someone named Matt Masi, who apparently has the same affliction as **Seethruart** , claims to see the Devil in the smoke coming from the second collision. ---
**Author:** ![Toaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@Toaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toaster)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/12 "2001-09-13T21:06:31Z")
The devil carries a sickle-thingy instead of a pitchfork now? ---
**Author:** ![rushtopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e47774/32.png) [@rushtopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rushtopher)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/13 "2001-09-13T21:56:30Z")
> [@](#): > > I was at Sylvia Browne’s Web site yesterday. She’s got a pop-up that proclaims that she didn’t predict the 9/11 events because “she’s not omniscient.” > > Understatement of the century. I’m sorry you misunderstand, she IS claiming she predicted it, but got the details wrong cause she’s not omniscient. From Sylvia’s pop-up: > [@](#): > > Her list of predictions in 1999 warned of terrorism, but clearly the timing was wrong. Note she doesn’t say that the prediction is wrong, just the timing. She also doesn’t point out that the terrorist activity was supposed to take place in London and Florida, based on her prediction listed at #15 here: [http://www.sylvia.org/home/1999pred.cfm](http://www.sylvia.org/home/1999pred.cfm) but hey, what’s a few details when you are psychic. I’m not in the pit so i won’t call names. Darn. ---
**Author:** ![More\_Cowbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@More\_Cowbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/More_Cowbell)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/14 "2001-09-13T23:07:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Ah, good old Discovery Channel. I remember a time when they, and their cohort The Learning Channel, showed programs besides pseudoscientific crackpot shows and The Justice Files But I LIKE those pseudoscientific crackpot shows! ::sigh:: Even if a pyschic did claim to make the prediction, saying that New York will be hit by terrorists isn’t a very impressive prediction. Personally, I’m suprised it hasn’t happened sooner. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/15 "2001-09-14T00:25:23Z")
jab1 wrote: > [@](#): > > [http://www.artbell.com/letters21.html](http://www.artbell.com/letters21.html). Someone named Matt Masi, who apparently has the same affliction as **Seethruart** , claims to see the Devil in the smoke coming from the second collision. I see a kitty cat! (And BTW, it seems that the above link is updated quite frequently; by tomorrow, both the devil-in-the-smoke-cloud and the remote-viewing-of-the-terrorist’s-hideout pictures may be gone!) ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/16 "2001-09-14T00:55:47Z")
rushtopher: Feel free to call Sylvia Browne names here – for trying to use this tragedy to promote herself, she deserves every one of them. I’ve used the info you provided here in a post at [SkepticNews](http://www.skepticnews.com). Thanks. [Edited by David B on 09-13-2001 at 07:59 PM] ---
**Author:** ![rushtopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e47774/32.png) [@rushtopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rushtopher)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/17 "2001-09-14T03:24:19Z")
Great, thank you for another skeptic link. And if you want name-calling for her: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=86623](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=86623) properly placed in the pit. I had another thread about her somewhere, but her appearance a few weeks ago on Larry King with James Randi seems less important now. hint: Look for the word whore. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/18 "2001-09-14T14:40:25Z")
You’re right, rushtopher - I misremembered the details of her pop-up. It won’t matter though to her victims (AKA “believers”) that she got the details and the timing wrong - she’ll somehow turn it around to “prove” her miraculous powers. Here’s my prediction: the FBI will find, within the last quarter of 2001, at least 10 people involved with the attacks. At least a couple of them will be named Mohammed or Muhammed, or will have a name that ends in the Z or “een” sounds - Habiz, Moabin, something like that - or will have the word “Al” (i.e., Mohammed Al-Shabiz [N.B. that’s a totally made up and I’m not even sure truly Arabic name]). How’s that for a “psychic” prediction? Oooh, that was really tough to come up with simply through common sense. Sadly, I’m sure that Ms. Fraud-Browne will come up with similar “predictions” and the gullible masses will take that as further proof of her powers. I hate that slimy bitch. ---
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/19 "2001-09-14T15:06:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > **Have any “psychics” claimed to have predicted yesterday’s events? If so, do they have any proof that they really did so?** Incredible. I was just thinking today that I needed to start a thread on this, and you’ve already beat me to it, **jab1**! The media is having difficulty finding words to express the magnitude of the tragedy, calling it the “worst act of terrorism on American soil.” I submit to you that the destruction of the World Trade Center is by far the most horrific act of terrorism in the history of the human race, irresepctive of nations, religions, or ethnicity. In fact, I’d go so far to say that the only event or series of events that exceeds the depravity of this attack was the mass genocide carried out by the Nazis during the second World War. I don’t think any psychic anywhere could have the gall to claim prescience after this. Surely, if they really could forsee the future, they would have tried to alert someone somewhere to the events that were preparing to unfold. I don’t believe that any kind of psychic divination is “real.” Anyone who claims otherwise to me after this tragedy is going to get a well-deserved earfull. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182/20 "2001-09-14T20:41:30Z")
psiekier wrote: > [@](#): > > Incredible. I was just thinking today that I needed to start a thread on this, and you’ve already beat me to it, **jab1**! **jab1** must have read your mind! This obviously proves that he’s a closet psychic himself. He should put up a webpage and charge people’s Visa\* cards to do “readings” about them. [sub]\*) But he won’t take American Express.[/sub] [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-and-terrorists/81182.md?page=2)