# Psychics should be sued and pay penalties for failed predictions **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 31, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-should-be-sued-and-pay-penalties-for-failed-predictions/703151 "2014-10-31T18:45:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-should-be-sued-and-pay-penalties-for-failed-predictions/703151/41 "2014-11-01T20:56:05Z")
Local radio show had on “Psychic Renee” for an hour last night. She was talking on and on to one caller about how her dead husband left her suddenly so at least there wasn’t any prolonged suffering, when near the end the caller broke in and said that he died after a long illness. I swear to ghod her response was: “But when he _did_ die, he died suddenly, right?” ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-should-be-sued-and-pay-penalties-for-failed-predictions/703151/42 "2014-11-01T22:27:55Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > This is a terribly rotten idea. The last thing we need is more laws setting ugly precedents to further disenfranchise non-protected classes of people. > > And why stop with psychics? Recently, Italy took the backwards step of [charging seismologists with manslaughter](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/23/jailing-italian-seismologists-scientific-community) for failing to “predict” the deadly 2009 L’Aquila Earthquake. Should we sue or imprison weather forecasters? Stock market analysts? Sports commentators? It’s one hell of a slippery slope. Because there’s no fundamental difference between people asserting supernatural powers and people using explicitly probibalistic models to try to figure out what’s more likely, right? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2014, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-should-be-sued-and-pay-penalties-for-failed-predictions/703151/43 "2014-11-02T11:49:59Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > If I pay to see a comedian who’s not funny, can I sue? Lemme guess. You’re still bitter over paying the ten dollar cover to see Gary Shandling, right? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-should-be-sued-and-pay-penalties-for-failed-predictions/703151/44 "2014-11-02T19:16:09Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Lemme guess. You’re still bitter over paying the ten dollar cover to see Gary Shandling, right? It’s the $20 ticket for Gallagher that really burns. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-should-be-sued-and-pay-penalties-for-failed-predictions/703151/45 "2014-11-03T02:48:31Z")
TL:DR The great, ancient rule of law is the “Reasonable man” test. It holds, very simply: “Would a reasonable man, with average knowledge have believed/done/said that?” For this suit to succeed, you will need to show that a reasonable man would have believed the prediction of a “Psychic”. Good luck finding the court where that happens - I suspect that, even if a jury were to find such a belief reasonable, the Judge would set aside that verdict. Assuming he didn’t already direct a verdict/dismiss for lack of actionable assertion, or otherwise throw your ass out of court while trying to keep a straight face. Hey Betty - remember that “Freeman on the Land” moron you had last month? Well, I just had one that topped him! ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-should-be-sued-and-pay-penalties-for-failed-predictions/703151/46 "2014-11-03T16:12:33Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > What churches do you get this impression from? The Baptist church a few blocks from my house in the slightly “better” neighborhood fits this description. Very Republican, very much the poor are who they are because g-d is punishing them for sin and the rich are blessed. It’s actually the most common pattern ofthe evangelical churches I have encountered. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-should-be-sued-and-pay-penalties-for-failed-predictions/703151/47 "2014-11-03T16:18:06Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Because there’s no fundamental difference between people asserting supernatural powers and people using explicitly probibalistic models to try to figure out what’s more likely, right? I’ve known psychics that use algorithms and probability calculations in their work. It’s not that different from what some of the dating sites use. Perhaps someone should sue [Match.com](http://Match.com) after not being able to find their soul mate? ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-should-be-sued-and-pay-penalties-for-failed-predictions/703151/48 "2014-11-03T17:49:18Z")
Every time I scroll past this thread I read it as “physicists should be sued” and it confuses me. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-should-be-sued-and-pay-penalties-for-failed-predictions/703151/49 "2014-11-03T19:47:43Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Such claims should be illegal, or at least considered damaging in a civil sense no matter what the outcome. Right after homeopathic medicine companies are sued for fraud despite the “not approved by the FDA” or “for entertainment purposes only” or whatever other crap they say on the box. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-should-be-sued-and-pay-penalties-for-failed-predictions/703151/50 "2014-11-03T20:00:03Z")
This may not be the same as psychics, but there are some local shamans who advertise in the newspaper, who claim to be able to use magical powers to fix problems with money, relationships, evil spells, etc., and many of them say “Payment after results” in their ads. So I guess you don’t pay them unless/until their “magic” works. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-should-be-sued-and-pay-penalties-for-failed-predictions/703151/51 "2014-11-03T20:05:43Z")
> [@EmilyG](#): > > This may not be the same as psychics, but there are some local shamans who advertise in the newspaper, who claim to be able to use magical powers to fix problems with money, relationships, evil spells, etc., and many of them say “Payment after results” in their ads. So I guess you don’t pay them unless/until their “magic” works. If things go right half the time they get paid _even though they had jack shit to do with causing it to happen in the first place!_ KA-_CHING!_ ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-should-be-sued-and-pay-penalties-for-failed-predictions/703151/52 "2014-11-03T20:08:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If things go right half the time they get paid _even though they had jack shit to do with causing it to happen in the first place!_ KA-_CHING!_ Maybe I should look into shamanism as a career. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-should-be-sued-and-pay-penalties-for-failed-predictions/703151/53 "2014-11-03T20:12:31Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > You mean, like doctors and stock brokers and race track touts? And [weather forecaster](http://freakonomics.com/2008/04/21/how-valid-are-tv-weather-forecasts/)? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Emerald\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Emerald\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emerald_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-should-be-sued-and-pay-penalties-for-failed-predictions/703151/54 "2014-11-04T14:31:08Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Such claims should be illegal, or at least considered damaging in a civil sense no matter what the outcome. Good news everyone. It is illegal, at least in [New York](http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal/PEN0165.35_165.35.html): > [@](#): > > 165.35 Fortune telling. > A person is guilty of fortune telling when, for a fee or compensation which he directly or indirectly solicits or receives, he claims or pretends to tell fortunes, or holds himself out as being able, by claimed or pretended use of occult powers, to answer questions or give advice on personal matters or to exorcise, influence or affect evil spirits or curses; except that this section does not apply to a person who engages in the aforedescribed conduct as part of a show or exhibition solely for the purpose of entertainment or amusement. > Fortune telling is a class B misdemeanor. I’m happy we have this law. No need to worry if a prediction is “too vague” to count as fraud. No need to worry if a “reasonable” person would have fallen for it, or if your poor grandma with dementia deserved what she got for being stupid. It’s just illegal, unless you are doing it for entertainment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics-should-be-sued-and-pay-penalties-for-failed-predictions/703151.md?page=2)