# Psychics. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics/292314 "2005-02-28T16:53:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics/292314/1 "2005-02-28T16:53:27Z")
You know, psychic, if you want to separate a fool and his money, more power to ya. It’s not like the gal who needs to know, “does he really like me” was going to be donating to the library anyway. But, when you’re stringing grieving parents along for your own means, you’re really doing something almost evil. From [here](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/crime/bal-md.marsalek28feb28,1,1660513.story?coll=bal-local-headlines). Subscription may be required. It’s about a guy who was found dead under a bridge. Police say he fell. > [@](#): > > Police have told the Marsaleks that Nick’s wallet, car keys and leather jacket were still on him when a jogger found his body at 4:35 a.m. An autopsy report confirmed that his death was caused by a fall, but it also revealed that he was legally drunk, leading police to speculate that he might have slipped. > > The Marsaleks, who live in Heathbrook near Hampden, believe otherwise. They say their son had no reason to be on the span at Remington Avenue and 33rd Street and that he was lured there by people who wanted to rob him. > > “This was a murder, and the cops have just shuffled it along,” Jim Marsalek said. > > The couple have no evidence to back their claim, but they insist they are on the right path. A Baltimore psychic named Sandi Athey has told them that she has caught glimpses of their son’s final moments, including a shove that forced the 1996 Loyola Blakefield prep school graduate off the bridge. And, > [@](#): > > Athey has used her talk show on WCBM-AM to get the word out about Nick’s death. She has asked listeners, some of whom are budding psychics, to do their own sleuthing. > > “My first hit is usually it,” she said recently. “And from the first time I walked into the Marsaleks’ house, I got the feeling that he was distracted, and it was a gang. Everyone gets that he was pushed.” > > Athey says someone lured Nick to the bridge, where at least two other people were waiting. When he realized he’d been duped, it was too late. > > “He was completely and totally taken by surprise,” she said. I’ve followed this story because it’s pretty close to my house. My wife and I walk the dogs under that bridge all the time. It seems pretty clear that it was silly accident, and then you get this absolutely immoral, moronic psychic stringing this family along with such stupid stuff. It frosts my ass on so many levels. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics/292314/2 "2005-02-28T17:39:26Z")
That is sad. The sidekick probably made her prediction before the body was found and now has to maintain her (wrong) prediction or lose her ‘credibility’ (not that she has any). Sad. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics/292314/3 "2005-02-28T17:44:23Z")
One TV psychic charges over $900 an hour. For a few trite phrases, thus exploiting grieving victims. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics/292314/4 "2005-02-28T18:21:40Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > That is sad. The sidekick probably made her prediction before the body was found and now has to maintain her (wrong) prediction or lose her ‘credibility’ (not that she has any). Sad. That’s what Sylvia Browne does. A couple of years ago, she kept insisting that a missing girl was safe and sound on the other side of the world, until her body was found within a few miles of her home in an area that had already been extensively searched. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics/292314/5 "2005-03-01T00:57:36Z")
Aw, I misread the title as “Physics” and I was ready to come in here all “Amen, brother/ Sister!” This is attention-profiteering. I hate these guys. Any kind of profiteering off the stupid and gullible is uncool. This is the emotional equivalent of rent-to-own or high-interest credit. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics/292314/6 "2005-03-01T01:12:23Z")
Relevant of very little, I can remember a night about 15 years ago when I was awake at 3 a.m. and noticed my mother’s car had to be moved to the opposite side of the street, as per alternate-side partking regulations. When I started the car, though, I drove on a whim from downtown Montreal to the bedroom community of Dorion, some 27 miles west. I just had some things to mull over, but it occured to me afterward that if I’d been clobbered by a drunk driver, my family would be wondering for the rest of their lives _what the hell was Bryan doing in Dorion at 3 o’clock in the morning?_ The dead kid has left a similar conundrum for his folks and the simplest explanation (a spur-of-the-moment drunken stroll ending in an accident) is understandably unsatisfying. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics/292314/7 "2005-03-01T05:55:40Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > That’s what Sylvia Browne does. A couple of years ago, she kept insisting that a missing girl was safe and sound on the other side of the world, until her body was found within a few miles of her home in an area that had already been extensively searched. Ooooh, could you find an article about that? My mother is a fan of Brown’s, and I’m constantly trying to convince her otherwise. (Even though she gets very defensive). ---
**Author:** ![Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/779978/32.png) [@Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amazon_Floozy_Goddess)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics/292314/8 "2005-03-01T14:08:28Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Ooooh, could you find an article about that? My mother is a fan of Brown’s, and I’m constantly trying to convince her otherwise. (Even though she gets very defensive). Arrgh, Sylvia Browne drives me nuts. I heard her claim on Montel William’s Show that some audience member’s pool was losing water because _aliens_ were coming to siphon it up at night. Yes, that’s right, aliens. Never mind the possibility that the pool could have a leak somewhere. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics/292314/9 "2005-03-01T15:06:16Z")
Kind of like [Psi-Tech](http://www.psitech.net/) and the [Elizabeth Smart case](http://www.trvnews.com/tsl/031403/index.html). They said that telling if someone was dead or alive was the easiest and most reliable thing. They, said that the young miss Smart was dead. However, thankfully, she is still alive. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics/292314/10 "2005-03-01T15:26:49Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Kind of like [Psi-Tech](http://www.psitech.net/) and the [Elizabeth Smart case](http://www.trvnews.com/tsl/031403/index.html). They said that telling if someone was dead or alive was the easiest and most reliable thing. They, said that the young miss Smart was dead. However, thankfully, she is still alive. That second link is really remarkable. To hear someone justifying what went wrong with predicting a little girl’s death. And the GALL that these publicity seekers must have to write this > [@](#): > > To begin with, when Elizabeth went missing in June, we were just finalizing the last report from the four month project of the missing Bradley girls case in Chicago. We were exhausted and we, along with our 14 member team, were dreading the thought of digging into another missing child case so soon. It’s one of those things that makes you say, “have you no shred of deceny left”. (or whatever that line is) These people make me friggin’ sick. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics/292314/11 "2005-03-01T15:37:04Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Ooooh, could you find an article about that? My mother is a fan of Brown’s, and I’m constantly trying to convince her otherwise. (Even though she gets very defensive). I’ll try. In the meantime, [I found something similar from 2003](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:VUWyvQXNPu4J:www.pittsburghfirst.com/localnews/20030315bodydig2.asp+%22lynda+mcclelland%22+browne&hl=en) (cached due to expired domain name). > [@](#): > > Psychic Sylvia Browne told Lynda McClelland’s daughters last year that McClelland ended up, confused but alive, in a Florida nursing home after disappearing in July 2000 from her Forest Hills home. > > But yesterday, McClelland’s family learned that a body believed to be hers had been found in a shallow grave a few miles from her home – and likely had been there all along. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics/292314/12 "2005-03-01T16:00:36Z")
Okay, I tracked down the story I was thinking of to one of her appearances with Montel Williams. > [@](#): > > [JREF](http://www.randi.org/jr/090701.html) > Many months ago, on another show that featured Sylvia as a guest, the grandmother of a local missing child was also on the program. The child was a six-year-old named Opal Jo Jennings, from north Texas. She had been in the news a lot because of her disappearance. On national TV, Sylvia said that the child was still alive but had been sold into white slavery and was currently in Japan! She even gave a city name. But there is no city in Japan by that name. Currently, there is a man sitting in prison in Texas who has confessed to Opal Jo’s abduction. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics/292314/13 "2005-03-01T16:04:17Z")
Lies are bad (because truth is important). Lies that foster more basic untruths (for example, that psychics know truths that the rest of us cannot) are worse, because they enable other liars. Lies that foster basic untruths in order to collect money are still worse, because money is important. Lies that foster basic untruths in order to collect money from the poor, ignorant and fearful (because they prey upon the especially vulnerable) are still worse. And lies that so foster basic untruths in order to collect money from uniquely vulnerable people and are later denied when they are disproven are even yet still worse, because that negates responsibility and accountability for one’s actions, after which _any_ crime is possible. In short, Dante postulated too few levels of Hell. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics/292314/14 "2005-03-01T16:11:56Z")
[Opal Jo’s remains were found 10 miles from her grandparents’ house](http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/news/7695564.htm), the apparent point of her abduction. ---
**Author:** ![Cemetery\_Savior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Cemetery\_Savior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cemetery_Savior)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics/292314/15 "2005-03-01T16:29:02Z")
I was all ready to chime in with a Jonathan Edwards-bashing (carnival people do a better job), but once I read the Liz Smart/Psi-Tech “apology”, I was amazed. I don’t think “Gall” is the word for it. When you wrap a con-man (or -woman) in a thick layer of self-delusion, it’s amazing what you can get. There’s a part of me that wants to lay blame on parents who would even consider talking these shysters at face value, but then I think about what frame of mind they must be in. It’s really the perfect business. You’re set up as the very last possible hope of “investigation”, and your deliverables are only guesses/intuition. And then, if by some statistical anomaly you get a “hit” that is correct, your business is set for life. What gets me in the Smart case is what I _think_ happened… Psi-Tech: “Oh…I’m tired from guessing” Pater Smart: “I need you” PT: “Oh, let’;s just tell him she’s dead…it’s the most likely guess.” Kudos for the branding, though…“Psi-Tech” reminds me of a computer manufacturer…nice and reliable. Man, I’d like to believe this stuff has a basis in fact, but all I can see is hokum. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics/292314/16 "2005-03-01T18:11:47Z")
Hurkos was a Dutch “psychic” who was consulted on several important murder case…including the “Boston Strangler” serial murders of the early 1960’s. He made a pest of himself and generally impeded the investigations. Not ONE lead given by Hurkos resulted in any arrests or even suspects. Hurkos was thoroughly investigated by a Dutch homicide detective, and all of his leads were found to be worthless-yet people still believe that this guy had psychic powers. So, what to make of psychics? At best, they are simply deluded, though well-meaning people. At worst, they are con men, and liars. If any of them had geniune abilities, surely one case (proving their abilities) would have been known by now. I leave it o the reader to reach his own conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychics/292314/17 "2005-03-01T18:41:26Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I leave it o the reader to reach his own conclusions. See, that kind of sentiment just isn’t good enough for me. Businesses simply are not allowed to outright LIE about their product. You can’t just claim, “I can do such-and-such”, take money for it, and then not do such-and-such. It’s a business that preys upon the weak-minded through dishonest marketing. There’s simply not an iota of a drop of a shred of an atom of validity to it. It’s remarkable that there are still people who think who think there is, and a testament that you can fool some of the people all of the time. It’s not up for debate.