# "Psycho letters from men": Did this guy deserve the article? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 23, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037 "2009-07-23T21:07:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/1 "2009-07-23T21:07:15Z")
For those that don’t know, Psychotic Letters from Men is a blog that basically offers up examples of its namesake for our general amusement. In most cases, the guy is a nutcase that’s practically stalking the woman. Normally, although I blame the women a little bit for feeding the flames, the man is completely ridiculously wrong in his pursuits of “love”. But what about [this case](http://psychoticlettersfrommen.blogspot.com/2009/07/prognosis-asshole.html)? Essentially, the girl teases Todd for a few weeks about losing her virginity. You know, the let’s-do-it-no-wait-let’s-not variety. Todd puts up with it. Finally, they get it on. It’s terrible. Todd soon stops returning her phone calls but unfortunately, there’s a baby on the way! Then Todd offers to pay for the abortion and says “Have a nice life!” My girlfriend’s response? “What a douchebag.” Apparently, she thinks the guy owes it to the girl to stick around after taking her virginity. My stance is that there was no special transaction here. She didn’t _give_ him anything. They just mutually agreed to an action. He owes her nothing. She faults him for dodging her and writing her off when she gets pregnant. From my perspective, this psycho-clingy girl tries to get a hold of him over and over. Late-night texts; the whole bit. Finally, she say’s “I’m pregnant and it’s yours.” Now what guy in the world would take her seriously?! I, for one, would assume she’s a nut case too, trying to force him into a conversation he doesn’t want to have. At the end, he writes her off and pays for half the abortion. Now, yeah, he coulda worded the email better, but I don’t have much sympathy for the girl that sicked the pack of sorority girls on the guy to dress him down in public. Do you? I’d be short with her too! So do you think he should be faulted here? If you do, do you see this as blog-worthy fodder of the caliber the site is used to printing? Should my girlfriend been mad at me for supporting the guy? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/2 "2009-07-23T21:12:21Z")
I don’t think he’s psychotic (I was assuming something way worse would happen) but he’s definitely an asshole for not responding to the pregnancy thing. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/3 "2009-07-23T21:56:24Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I don’t think he’s psychotic (I was assuming something way worse would happen) but he’s definitely an asshole for not responding to the pregnancy thing. And for only offering to pay half the cost of the abortion. I mean, has he never heard of “child support”? Not that he _owes_ her anything for “taking her virginity”, but he certainly _does_ owe his child something: financial support. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/4 "2009-07-23T22:07:36Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > And for only offering to pay half the cost of the abortion. I mean, has he never heard of “child support”? Not that he _owes_ her anything for “taking her virginity”, but he certainly _does_ owe his child something: financial support. Yeah. Admittedly, she may have come on too strong before she knew she was pregnant. It may have seemed like a ploy but he didn’t know that for sure. He should have called. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/5 "2009-07-23T22:54:02Z")
He should have insisted on a rubber, and she should have used her own form of birth control. It takes 2 to fuck and get pregnant. She is as much to blame for the pregnancy as he was. he could have been less uncouth, but I expect most guys nowdays to be entitlement whores and jackasses after seeing how parenting pretty much has gone the way of the dodo [with exceptions of course … but at least 90 % of the sprogs I see in the store or out in public have had no parenting, it is like Lord of the Flies without the island] ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/6 "2009-07-23T23:02:14Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > And for only offering to pay half the cost of the abortion. I mean, has he never heard of “child support”? Not that he _owes_ her anything for “taking her virginity”, but he certainly _does_ owe his child something: financial support. He doesn’t have to _offer_ child support - if the time comes that it’s necessary, people will come calling. Offering to (partly) pay for the abortion is just a brusque way of saying “Hey, I’d prefer you chose option#2 that won’t screw me over nearly as much, so in facilitation of that choice I’m offering to cover half\* the costs associated with it, despite not being required to, like I would be with child support”. - assuming ‘getting an invasive surgery’ isn’t considered among the costs. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/7 "2009-07-23T23:52:53Z")
How do we know that they didn’t use condoms? They didn’t seem to mention it, though he did say he didn’t come in her. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/8 "2009-07-23T23:53:27Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > But what about [this case](http://psychoticlettersfrommen.blogspot.com/2009/07/prognosis-asshole.html)? Essentially, the girl teases Todd for a few weeks about losing her virginity. That’s really lovely that you’re calling Kathy a tease because she didn’t want to have sex right away. > [@](#): > > \*You know, the let’s-do-it-no-wait-let’s-not variety. Todd puts up with it. \*Do you consider it beyond possibility that she wanted to have sex but was genuinely nervous about it? Maybe she was afraid that it would be painful, or that the guy would ditch her as soon as he’d gotten what he was really after, or that he’d think she was a slut afterward. You know, just like what actually happened. > [@](#): > > \*Finally, they get it on. It’s terrible. Todd soon stops returning her phone calls but unfortunately, there’s a baby on the way! Then Todd offers to pay for the abortion and says “Have a nice life!” \*You left out the part where he accuses her of sleeping around with a bunch of other fraternity guys, and the part where he says he’s been sharing her text messages to him with other people. And, as others have pointed out, he didn’t even offer to pay for the whole abortion. His words, as quoted in the blog, were “Do what you have to do and I’ll pay my **half**.” (Emphasis mine.) Referring to an abortion as something Kathy “has to do” is pretty cold as well. > [@](#): > > \*My girlfriend’s response? “What a douchebag.” \*Sounds about right. “Psychotic” would be inaccurate, he seems quite rational, but although I dislike the term “douchebag” it’s fair enough in this case. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/9 "2009-07-24T00:00:49Z")
Apropos to the thread about guessing gender from posts, I think it would be instructive if participants in this thread disclosed their sex as well as their opinion, for obvious reasons of group identity biases and tribal tendencies. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/10 "2009-07-24T00:05:11Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > That’s really lovely that you’re calling Kathy a tease because she didn’t want to have sex right away. > \*Do you consider it beyond possibility that she wanted to have sex but was genuinely nervous about it? Maybe she was afraid that it would be painful, or that the guy would ditch her as soon as he’d gotten what he was really after, or that he’d think she was a slut afterward. Wow, way to miss the point. Where did I call her a tease _because she didn’t want to have sex right away_? I distinctly recall there being a different reason I gave her that title: > [@the article](#): > > …getting all hot and heavy on the couch in a manner you might expect from a couple of hot, young, nubile college undergrads…Todd: why you always stop Seems like she’s leading him on and then putting the breaks on at the last second. That’s the definition of being a tease. And how do her concerns call for him having to stay with her? She sucked at it, he left. Where’s the foul? ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/11 "2009-07-24T00:08:42Z")
He’s a complete douchebag and she’s an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/12 "2009-07-24T00:09:20Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Wow, way to miss the point. Where did I call her a tease _because she didn’t want to have sex right away_? I distinctly recall there being a different reason I gave her that title: Well, if you’re making out with someone does not having sex make you a tease? It’s not like he couldn’t go jerk off. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/13 "2009-07-24T00:10:26Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > he could have been less uncouth, but I expect most guys nowdays to be entitlement whores and jackasses Lemme guess; back in your day, men were paragons of virtue, right? They probably helped around the house, let their wives have jobs, and let them vote all over the place! Nowadays, it’s all “I’m entitled to dump you whenever I feel like it” without even the decency to chain themselves to a woman after ‘taking’ her oh-so-precious virginity, right? I mean, come on…they owe her! They get sex, she gets love. That’s the deal! (Pfsh.) ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/14 "2009-07-24T00:11:41Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > And for only offering to pay half the cost of the abortion. I mean, has he never heard of “child support”? Not that he _owes_ her anything for “taking her virginity”, but he certainly _does_ owe his child something: financial support. It’s not a child, it’s a zygote. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/15 "2009-07-24T00:13:43Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Seems like she’s leading him on and then putting the breaks on at the last second. That’s the definition of being a tease. And how do her concerns call for him having to stay with her? She sucked at it, he left. Where’s the foul? What, she’s required to let him penetrate her vaginally if they start getting heavy? She told him she was a virgin, she was unsure, she wanted to take it slow, etc. Then when she decides she’s ready, he fucks her at a party and gets up when he’s done to keep partying, then doesn’t ever call her again. Asshole moves. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/16 "2009-07-24T00:20:45Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Nowadays, it’s all “I’m entitled to dump you whenever I feel like it” without even the decency to chain themselves to a woman after ‘taking’ her oh-so-precious virginity, right? I mean, come on…they owe her! They get sex, she gets love. That’s the deal! > > (Pfsh.) He did falsely advertise that yes, in fact, he was going to give her love, in order to get what he wanted. He bullshitted her into thinking they had a relationship, which she had every reason to think would continue after they had sex. That seems to be a reasonable expectation. Also, basically calling her a whore when she told him she was pregnant, totally uncalled for. He was an asshole for treating her that way, I don’t think there’s much room for arguing that. Of course he has the right to break up with her. We have the right to think he’s an asshole for pulling a fuck and run on her. Where she became an idiot is chasing after him with the texts and the e-mails. Obviously the guy was a dick, why pursue him and beg? Have a little dignity. Once she found out she was pregnant, then yes, of course she had to contact him. Before that, she should have cut her losses and walked away. I do have some compassion for her, though, because she probably felt horrible about being used and discarded like trash after sex. She can grow up and learn not to be so trusting in the future. Todd, OTOH, is probably a douchebag for life. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/17 "2009-07-24T00:22:14Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > What, she’s required to let him penetrate her vaginally if they start getting heavy? She told him she was a virgin, she was unsure, she wanted to take it slow, etc. Then when she decides she’s ready, he fucks her at a party and gets up when he’s done to keep partying, then doesn’t ever call her again. Asshole moves. No, she’s not required to. She is, however, required to accept the consequences of her interactions with other human beings. It shouldn’t be a big shock that having sex with someone makes them like you more, and not having sex makes them like you less (assuming you’re in the appropriate relation to each other). So if she wants to wait, she should find a man that’s willing to wait. He wasn’t that man and owes her no apologies for it. Keep in mind that the story is delivered from a jilted woman’s perspective. There’s just not enough evidence to convict here. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/18 "2009-07-24T00:24:18Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Where she became an idiot is chasing after him with the texts and the e-mails. Obviously the guy was a dick, why pursue him and beg? Have a little dignity. Once she found out she was pregnant, then yes, of course she had to contact him. Before that, she should have cut her losses and walked away. I do have some compassion for her, though, because she probably felt horrible about being used and discarded like trash after sex. > > She can grow up and learn not to be so trusting in the future. Todd, OTOH, is probably a douchebag for life. Agreed. This seems like a pretty good assessment of the situation. > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > No, she’s not required to. She is, however, required to accept the consequences of her interactions with other human beings. It shouldn’t be a big shock that having sex with someone makes them like you more, and not having sex makes them like you less (assuming you’re in the appropriate relation to each other). So if she wants to wait, she should find a man that’s willing to wait. He wasn’t that man and owes her no apologies for it. No one technically owes anyone anything in a relationship. But if he’s entitled to get up after sex and walk away why is she not entitled to say no to sex even after making out? It seems you’re holding them to a double standard here. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/19 "2009-07-24T00:29:06Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > No one technically owes anyone anything in a relationship. But if he’s entitled to get up after sex and walk away why is she not entitled to say no to sex even after making out? It seems you’re holding them to a double standard here. I don’t see **Chessic Sense** denying that. I do, however, see people claiming that the girl has no social obligations in her behavior towards him, which was what he was responding to. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/20 "2009-07-24T00:29:53Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Wow, way to miss the point. Where did I call her a tease _because she didn’t want to have sex right away_? You said “Essentially, the girl teases Todd for a few weeks about losing her virginity.” I guess if she hadn’t wanted to wait a few weeks (gosh, whole weeks, how could he stand it?) before having sex for the first time then she wouldn’t have been a tease. > [@](#): > > \*Seems like she’s leading him on and then putting the breaks on at the last second. That’s the definition of being a tease. \*So you think every woman who has ever made out with a guy but not had sex with him that very night is a tease? Like I said, lovely. It sounds to _me_ like she was attracted to this guy and enjoyed making out with him but was afraid of “going all the way” – and, as it turns out, with good reason. Kathy’s story is the kind of thing that’s told to girls to discourage them from having sex. “It will be horrible and painful! He won’t respect you afterward! You’ll get pregnant and have to deal with it alone!” > [@](#): > > \*And how do her concerns call for him having to stay with her? \*Wow, way to miss the point. Where did I say he had to stay with her? I said the guy was a douchebag. Kathy is obviously better off without this jerk. > [@](#): > > \*She sucked at it, he left. Where’s the foul? \*Sounds from the blog like HE sucked at it. He was “pretty drunk”, and “it took forever and it was painful [for Kathy]”. Then, although they’ve been dating for several weeks, he doesn’t even have the decency to tell her they’re breaking up. He just stops taking her calls. He shares her private text messages with other people they know and accuses her of being a slut and a liar. The blog is of course only giving us Kathy’s side of the story, but at no point in this tale does Todd behave well. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037.md?page=2)