# "Psycho letters from men": Did this guy deserve the article? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 23, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037 "2009-07-23T21:07:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/21 "2009-07-24T00:33:41Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > No, she’s not required to. She is, however, required to accept the consequences of her interactions with other human beings. It shouldn’t be a big shock that having sex with someone makes them like you more, and not having sex makes them like you less (assuming you’re in the appropriate relation to each other). But that’s exactly the opposite of what happened to Kathy – he was saying “I still want to be with you” before she agreed to have sex, but once she did he lost interest. Any fears she might have had about the consequences of having sex with Todd were perfectly justified. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/22 "2009-07-24T03:08:34Z")
To me it seems Kathy’s main shortcomings were in how to deal with an asshole. Ie realising when you’ve been had by someone who lied to you about wanting a relationship rather than sex It would be great to be good at that from the getgo, but unfortunately generally people arent too great at it the first time round. She will probably do much better the next time round. I doubt he will. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/23 "2009-07-24T06:23:27Z")
Dude’s never heard of pre-cum? Just the type of gentleman who keeps the virgin/whore dichotomy alive and well! What an idiot. Her, too, to a lesser degree, for actually going ahead and sleeping with a guy who would be dickish enough to pressure her (and for not insisting on a condom, however drunk. ETA: And both of them are extra big idiots if they offered/believed the classic ‘You can’t get pregnant your first time’ line). If I were a guy and a woman I’d slept with told me she was pregnant, I might not start knitting baby booties but I’d sure as hell offer to take her to the clinic for a second opinion. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/24 "2009-07-24T09:12:24Z")
Originally Posted by aruvqan View Post he could have been less uncouth, but I expect most guys nowdays to be entitlement whores and jackasses > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Lemme guess; back in your day, men were paragons of virtue, right? They probably helped around the house, let their wives have jobs, and let them vote all over the place! > > Nowadays, it’s all “I’m entitled to dump you whenever I feel like it” without even the decency to chain themselves to a woman after ‘taking’ her oh-so-precious virginity, right? I mean, come on…they owe her! They get sex, she gets love. That’s the deal! > > (Pfsh.) Back in my day you could say no without being called a tease and whore. I also didnt fuck on the first date, didn’t do one night stands and didn’t sleep with a guy until we had been dating for a while and were in a relationship. FWIW, I was born in 1961 and so you can consider ‘my time’ to be 1977until 1987, when I started dating mrAru and we have been together since then. I was pregnant twice prior to that, both times with a fiancee that had set a wedding date. We didnt get married because he _died_ before the wedding date. Any woman who does one night stands and fucks on the first date or outside a serious relationship deserves what she gets. What she does not deserve is date rape, so don’t even go there. What a woman needs to do is assure HER own birth control, and assure her own psychological health [IE, if you screw some guy without being in a serious long term relationship, dont whinge at me if he dumps you after getting laid because all he wanted was to get laid.] ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/25 "2009-07-24T11:02:20Z")
She’s an idiot, he’s a douche. An interesting aspect of the story is that the first part describes her telling her high school boyfriend that she made an agreement not to have sex until she graduated… but once she graduated, she’d be with him. Then after the guy stuck with her until then (I don’t know if he was around because he really cared for her or just wanted the sex), she decided to break her word and go off and find some college asshole to fuck. It feels like there’s some sort of irony there but I can’t quite articulate it. It’d be sad if her high school boyfriend was a good guy and would’ve treated her right, only to have her go to college chasing after someone with nicer abs. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/26 "2009-07-24T13:48:23Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > He’s a complete douchebag and she’s an idiot. I don’t think I can improve on this. > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > So do you think he should be faulted here? If you do, do you see this as blog-worthy fodder of the caliber the site is used to printing? He’s not the only one at fault in the situation, but yeah, he’s an asshole. The accusation of lying and the denial of responsibility are asshole moves, and as an added bonus, the last message about the abortion makes it sound like he’s pissed at being inconvenienced. > [@](#): > > Should my girlfriend been mad at me for supporting the guy? It always works well when you invite a message board into a couples’ argument. 😉 Whether or not she “should,” I’m not surprised she _is_. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/27 "2009-07-24T14:45:33Z")
What surprises me about Chessic Sense’s support of this guy is that I’d think guys would be pissed off at the Todds of the world. They give decent guys who just want their girlfriends to sleep with them a bad name. Really, Todd is a cartoon character of the Asshole Frat Guy who Fucks You and Dumps You, then Calls You a Whore. It’s practically a standard issue boogeyman for all college girls. Todd could not fit that stereotype more perfectly, thus ruining it for all the dudes who are not like that but sure would like some lovin’. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/28 "2009-07-24T17:31:22Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > What, she’s required to let him penetrate her vaginally if they start getting heavy? She told him she was a virgin, she was unsure, she wanted to take it slow, etc. Then when she decides she’s ready, he fucks her at a party and gets up when he’s done to keep partying, then doesn’t ever call her again. Asshole moves. She fucked a frat boy at a frat party and then was shocked, SHOCKED when he nenevr called again? What the hell did she expect? He told her cared about her to get se? Welcome to Sex Lesson 101 (1:1), sweetie. Guys will say anything to get you to take your panties off – especially douchebag college guys at frat part parties. Of course he disappeared after he fucked her, that’s what they do. You might as well be shocked that a moose has antlers. I’m not saying it’s not scuzzy, but she wasn’t actually _entitled_ to anything. Nobody owes you a relationship just because you sleep with them. I also love that she says she say as she wouldn’t have sex in high school because she was afraid of getting pregnant, but then when she finally loses her virginity, she makes sure not to use any birth control (Absinence Only Education strikes again). Obviously she couldn’t take a hint when he stopped calling her, and I don’t blame the guy for initially thinking the pregnancy thing was bullshit, especially if he didn’t come inside her, like he said. Plus, by her own admission, she had been routinely hooking up with other frat boys before him (I know she says she was just making out with them, but I don’t see why this guy should necessarily have believed that.). He still should have taken the pregnancy claim more seriously from the beginning, butonce he was convinced, he DID take responsibility, so I don’t know what else he was suppposed to do. He paid for his half of the abortion. What else was he supposed to do? Marry her? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/29 "2009-07-24T17:32:30Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > What surprises me about Chessic Sense’s support of this guy is that I’d think guys would be pissed off at the Todds of the world. They give decent guys who just want their girlfriends to sleep with them a bad name. Really, Todd is a cartoon character of the Asshole Frat Guy who Fucks You and Dumps You, then Calls You a Whore. It’s practically a standard issue boogeyman for all college girls. Todd could not fit that stereotype more perfectly, thus ruining it for all the dudes who are not like that but sure would like some lovin’. I agree that he’s the stereotype, but I don’t know why she expected anything more. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/30 "2009-07-24T17:34:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I agree that he’s the stereotype, but I don’t know why she expected anything more. But by that rationale, should no woman ever expect anything from a man she dates who tells her he cares about her? Small wonder there’s a blog called Psychotic Letters From Men. Also, how do we know they didn’t use condoms? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/31 "2009-07-24T17:42:29Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > But by that rationale, should no woman ever expect anything from a man she dates who tells her he cares about her? No woman should ever believe what a guy promises her when he’s trying to get sex, no. Especially not when it’s a drunken frat boy at a fucking frat party. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/32 "2009-07-24T17:46:59Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No woman should ever believe what a guy promises her when he’s trying to get sex, no. Especially not when it’s a drunken frat boy at a fucking frat party. And she was a dumb naive sorority girl. That’s just how these things happen. One of my biggest regrets I ever had was having drunken sex with a virgin because I was nowhere near in a place to be that good to her. I was a promiscuous player at the time and figured as long as I was going with adults who knew the score it was ok, and that was mostly true except for the 18 year old virgin. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/33 "2009-07-24T17:50:45Z")
He seems like the stereotype frat asshole; she seems both clingy and clueless. Though given that we are only getting her side of the story, we can 100% believe in the clingy and clueless part. ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/34 "2009-07-24T18:00:41Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > What, she’s required to let him penetrate her vaginally if they start getting heavy? She told him she was a virgin, she was unsure, she wanted to take it slow, etc. Then when she decides she’s ready, he fucks her at a party and gets up when he’s done to keep partying, then doesn’t ever call her again. Asshole moves. In regards to your thoughts, I think your first and last sentences actually resolve the question. She didn’t have to let him penetrate her vaginally . . .I digress, but it would surely have resolved some of the issues here. As far as her having to have an abortion goes: he didn’t say that. He said “do what you have to do” which is a pretty common phrase usually meant to convey: make up your mind and do whatever; leave me the fuck alone. I think it’s only fair that he pay half the abortion cost. She did half the fucking. If she gave birth, she’d be paying half the support of the child. ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/35 "2009-07-24T18:15:18Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Originally Posted by aruvqan View Post > he could have been less uncouth, but I expect most guys nowdays to be entitlement whores and jackasses > > Back in my day you could say no without being called a tease and whore. I also didnt fuck on the first date, didn’t do one night stands and didn’t sleep with a guy until we had been dating for a while and were in a relationship. FWIW, I was born in 1961 and so you can consider ‘my time’ to be 1977until 1987, when I started dating mrAru and we have been together since then. I was pregnant twice prior to that, both times with a fiancee that had set a wedding date. We didnt get married because he _died_ before the wedding date. Sorry to hear that. > [@](#): > > Any woman who does one night stands and fucks on the first date or outside a serious relationship deserves what she gets. What she does not deserve is date rape, so don’t even go there. What a woman needs to do is assure HER own birth control, and assure her own psychological health [IE, if you screw some guy without being in a serious long term relationship, dont whinge at me if he dumps you after getting laid because all he wanted was to get laid.] Are you implying that he somehow raped her? Are you somehow implying that after weeks of dating, this was their first date? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/36 "2009-07-24T18:19:35Z")
> [@ashman165](#): > > Sorry to hear that. > Are you implying that he somehow raped her? Are you somehow implying that after weeks of dating, this was their first date? No, I think he meant that when he said “A girl who fucks a guy deserves what she gets” he means she deserves to get dumped (or for the guy not to call, etc). Not she deserves to get raped. As in, don’t expect anything from this guy but obviously, you don’t give up ALL rights when you go to bed with someone. ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/37 "2009-07-24T18:23:05Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > No, I think he meant that when he said “A girl who fucks a guy deserves what she gets” he means she deserves to get dumped (or for the guy not to call, etc). Not she deserves to get raped. As in, don’t expect anything from this guy but obviously, you don’t give up ALL rights when you go to bed with someone. Well, I think “he” is a she, and that’s why I asked her if she meant to imply that. Because, to my mind, she is literally equating this to rape. Maybe it’s more like shoplifting, or bait and switch, but it isn’t rape. Clearly in the past when she said no, he didn’t make her put out. There’s nothing I see here where she was forced to give it up; she chose to. In hindsight, she regrets that choice; but the guy isn’t at fault for her making a bad decision as she did so freely knowing full-well what could happen. And if she didn’t know what could happen, then she’s too stupid to be let out without a chaperon. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/38 "2009-07-24T18:26:32Z")
Well, we’ll let **aruvqan** settle it. But this: > [@aruvqan](#): > > Any woman who does one night stands and fucks on the first date or outside a serious relationship deserves what she gets. What she does not deserve is date rape, so don’t even go there. What a woman needs to do is assure HER own birth control, and assure her own psychological health [IE, if you screw some guy without being in a serious long term relationship, dont whinge at me if he dumps you after getting laid because all he wanted was to get laid.] Where she says that women having one night stands don’t get to complain about the guys being unchivalrous makes me think that she sees the guy in this situation as kind of a douche. I.e., don’t come crying if the drunk frat boy isn’t nice to you. However, with that in mind, a woman who goes to bed with a man obviously doesn’t deserve rape–I think she just put that in there so no one could say, “A woman who goes to bed with a man deserves what she gets–what about RAPE?” But again, I don’t profess to speak for her. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/39 "2009-07-24T18:44:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No woman should ever believe what a guy promises her when he’s trying to get sex, no. Especially not when it’s a drunken frat boy at a fucking frat party. > [@mswas](#): > > And she was a dumb naive sorority girl. That’s just how these things happen. One of my biggest regrets I ever had was having drunken sex with a virgin because I was nowhere near in a place to be that good to her. I was a promiscuous player at the time and figured as long as I was going with adults who knew the score it was ok, and that was mostly true except for the 18 year old virgin. > [@Malthus](#): > > He seems like the stereotype frat asshole; she seems both clingy and clueless. > > Though given that we are only getting her side of the story, we can 100% believe in the clingy and clueless part. Oh come on, did you read the article? This wasn’t a random hookup at the Pikes’ Pimps and Hos (Hoes?) party. This was a guy who went on dates with her and knew she was a virgin. It was totally an ultra-douche move on his part; I would have thought most men would have agreed. Look, I know when you get hot and heavy you say a lot of things you regret once you climax (things like, “Yes, I want to see you again.”). (And women tell me they have go through the same thing.) But those aren’t the circumstances here, and he totally led her on. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/40 "2009-07-24T18:50:26Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Oh come on, did you read the article? This wasn’t a random hookup at the Pikes’ Pimps and Hos (Hoes?) party. This was a guy who went on dates with her and knew she was a virgin. It was totally an ultra-douche move on his part; I would have thought most men would have agreed. > > Look, I know when you get hot and heavy you say a lot of things you regret once you climax (things like, “Yes, I want to see you again.”). (And women tell me they have go through the same thing.) But those aren’t the circumstances here, and he totally led her on. What part of “stereotypical frat asshole” does this contradict? I’m not understanding your “oh come on”. 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037.md?page=3)