# "Psycho letters from men": Did this guy deserve the article? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 23, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037 "2009-07-23T21:07:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/81 "2009-07-25T14:13:57Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > But then again, I don’t think anyone is arguing that Kathy wasn’t stupid. Even stupid people deserve to be treated with decency. I’ll stick my neck out and say she sounded more naive than stupid. And given her backstory (small town girl, focused on school, had only one serious boyfriend before college) it’s unsurprising that she was rather naive about men. I would also speculate that the reason she persisted in trying to get back together with Todd, well past the point when it should have been obvious he wasn’t interested, was less because she was so crazy about him and more because she didn’t want to admit to herself that she was no better than the girls she’d looked down on in high school. I think she was trying to protect her image of herself as a smart, strong young woman who didn’t make bad decisions about sex. She was okay with being someone who’d had a bad first time with a guy who still respected and cared about her afterward, but she wasn’t okay with being someone who’d been fooled by a smooth-talking creep who was only using her for sex and would ditch her as soon as he got what he was after. In the short-term, it was less painful for her to try to bend reality to fit her self-image than it was to admit that her judgment had failed her when it came to Todd. Of course she only wound up making things worse for herself, but I’ve known otherwise intelligent, rational women who were at least as bad as Kathy in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/82 "2009-07-25T14:55:46Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > They have sex. > They don’t speak to each other anymore. She’s upset about that and keeps contacting him. He doesn’t even tell her he’s not interested anymore. Then… > > “I’m pregnant.” > > “Why are you telling me?” > > followed by: > > Yeah, no, he’s not an asshole at all. The most reasonable thing to conclude here is that she made up being pregnant, first of all, and second of all, that _her main problem here is that he isn’t acting like they’re getting married_. She’s a virgin, the guy gets her pregnant, he refuses to ever talk to her again, she lets him know that he made another human person inside of her, he calls her stupid, insane, and a desperate slut. Where’s the issue? What did she expect, _marriage?_ The only possible things a guy could ever be obliged to give a girl are 1. nothing and 2. a lifetime of monogamy, after all! I can understand why he didn’t believe her. After stalking him for a period of time, she suddenly pulls the “I’m pregnant” card when he knows he didn’t come inside her. She gave every impression of lying (and we still don’t know that _wasn’t_). I would have thought she was desperate and insane too. He also had no reason to believe that she _hadn’t_ been with anyone else, since he knew she had a habit of getting drunk at parties and randomly hooking up with other frat boys. Maybe she SAID she didn’t have sex with them, but that doesn’t mean he had to believe she was telling the truth. I said already that he should have taken her pregnancy claim more seriously from the beginning, but he did eventually and he did take responsibility, so I still don’t see what else he owed her. It’s not like they ever had a relationship. He wasn’t her boyfriend or anything (a couple of dates means nothing). Are we supposed to attach some kind of special significance to the fact that she says she was a virgin? If she hadn’t been a virgin would it make any difference? By the way, a pregnancy is not a “human person,” but he took responsibility anyway, so the pregnancy is a non-issue, and was clearly not what she was really upset about (if she was ever really pregnant at all, which I doubt). She was mad because some sleazy frat boy didn’t really mean it when he said he cared about her. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/83 "2009-07-25T15:16:05Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s not like they ever had a relationship. He wasn’t her boyfriend or anything (a couple of dates means nothing). That’s what you say. Kathy apparently felt otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/84 "2009-07-25T15:22:58Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Interesting direction this thread has taken. It says right on the top “Did this guy deserve the article,” and here we are arguing about whether the girl was stupid for not expecting the guy to treat her the way he did. > > What’s with all these tangential references to her being stupid for, basically, believing what he said? What does that have to do with anything? > > **Chessic Sense** started this thread defending the guy’s actions, which are not defensible, and now the main issue is what’s wrong with the girl? That’s… typical of the kind of guy in the story, but kind of infuriating here. I guess one of the dangers of this message board is that people around these parts don’t know the difference between stupidity, naivete and ignorance. The girl wasn’t stupid or ignorant, she was naive. That’s just the way it goes. We hold people responsible for their naivete all the time, why is it different when it comes to a girl and her virginity? The precious little flowers need to be protected from the big bad men is what I am hearing. It’s completely paternalistic. Yes the boy was out to get laid, but as are most boys his age. This sort of thing happens. Her being naive doesn’t absolve him of being an asshole, but it is diminishing to women to claim that she had no part in this. Don’t give up your virginity when you’re drunk. _shrugs_ That’s the best way to ensure that you have some control over the circumstances in which you give it up. Guys want to get laid, it’s natural, and it’s funny how people like to crow about sexual liberation one minute and then call a guy an asshole for wanting sex. It’s a silly double-standard that hearkens back to an age where women were the weak and fragile sex that needs to be protected. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/85 "2009-07-25T15:25:26Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > I think it’s irrelevant to the question of whether or not Todd is a douchebag, yes. However, it’s not irrelevant as a topic of conversation in this thread because the OP does refer to her as a tease and some other unflattering things as a way of explaining or mitigating Todd’s assholishness, so her character is also in question in this thread. Well there is your problem right there. There is no debate to be had about whether or not Todd is a douchebag, everyone agrees that he is. That’s why the debate has swung to Kathy’s culpability. You seem to be arguing that she’s a bobble-headed little girl who needs to be protected from big bad boys her own age. It’s subtle but it shows that you think that boys have more responsibility for their actions than girls. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/86 "2009-07-25T15:30:40Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > If someday this happens to your daughter and she calls you up crying, I hope that you will say exactly these words to her. Otherwise, you’re a hypocrite. I won’t have to have this conversation with my daughter because I will teach her a deep reverence for personal responsibility. I will talk to her about how there are guys like that out there who will do this sort of thing, and that if she wants to lose her virginity she should do it when she is sober and the situation is right, and that she shouldn’t expect that the guy will be with her forever and ever, but also not to expect that he’ll just go away. In short she should have sex with someone because she wants to have sex, not because she has some dream of anything beyond that. When it gets to be time to lie down in bed, be in the moment, don’t project future hopes onto it. It’s ok to hope, but don’t let it break you down when you are disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/87 "2009-07-25T15:31:52Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I can understand why he didn’t believe her. After stalking him for a period of time, she suddenly pulls the “I’m pregnant” card when he knows he didn’t come inside her. She gave every impression of lying (and we still don’t know that _wasn’t_). I would have thought she was desperate and insane too. He also had no reason to believe that she _hadn’t_ been with anyone else, since he knew she had a habit of getting drunk at parties and randomly hooking up with other frat boys. Maybe she SAID she didn’t have sex with them, but that doesn’t mean he had to believe she was telling the truth. Right. Maybe. And maybe everything that you don’t know, you’re resolving in favor of him being awesome, and her being bankrupt. She stalked him for a period of time. He _knows_ he didn’t come. She gave _every impression_ of lying. Now you’re adopting the desperate and insane labels. Any reason to come down so firmly on that side of all of these points? No, not really, unless you’re providing it. > [@](#): > > I said already that he should have taken her pregnancy claim more seriously from the beginning, but he did eventually and he did take responsibility, so I still don’t see what else he owed her. It’s not like they ever had a relationship. He wasn’t her boyfriend or anything (a couple of dates means nothing). > > Are we supposed to attach some kind of special significance to the fact that she says she was a virgin? If she hadn’t been a virgin would it make any difference? This is all backward. If you don’t have a relationship (whatever that’s supposed to mean – they dated for a while and then had sex), the baseline assumption is you should just treat each other like shit? Any woman who this guy wasn’t currently involved in a relationship with, he can be dismissive and insulting to on a regular basis? What we’re "supposed to attach some kind of special significance"to is the fact that he waited her out, misled her about what was going on, had sex with her, impregnated her and then stopped communicating with her without even having the balls to tell her they weren’t together. ]quote]By the way, a pregnancy is not a “human person,” but he took responsibility anyway, so the pregnancy is a non-issue, and was clearly not what she was really upset about (if she was ever really pregnant at all, which I doubt). She was mad because some sleazy frat boy didn’t really mean it when he said he cared about her. [/QUOTE] Right, that’s what she was mad about. Which is true because you just made it up right now, because you know girls. And sure, the pregnancy is a non-issue. For you. It wasn’t at all a difficult situation for her to be in by herself. Oh, that’s right, if it even _happened_. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/88 "2009-07-25T15:33:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Dumping her current boyfriend. “I told Chris I would have sex with him once I graduated but when it came down to it, he wasn’t the guy I wanted to lose my virginity to,” explains Kathy. > > Kathy revoked his HymenPass© and set off for her college dorm, where she placed it a small glass case labelled “Break For Chiseled Buns Only.” Yea, what a poor little victim. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/89 "2009-07-25T15:36:28Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > That’s what you say. Kathy apparently felt otherwise. That’s why she’s a moron. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/90 "2009-07-25T15:37:19Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I guess one of the dangers of this message board is that people around these parts don’t know the difference between stupidity, naivete and ignorance. The girl wasn’t stupid or ignorant, she was naive. That’s just the way it goes. We hold people responsible for their naivete all the time, why is it different when it comes to a girl and her virginity? The precious little flowers need to be protected from the big bad men is what I am hearing. It’s completely paternalistic. Yes the boy was out to get laid, but as are most boys his age. This sort of thing happens. Her being naive doesn’t absolve him of being an asshole, but it is diminishing to women to claim that she had no part in this. …which nobody did. [QUOTE=mswas] Well there is your problem right there. There is no debate to be had about whether or not Todd is a douchebag, everyone agrees that he is. That’s why the debate has swung to Kathy’s culpability. You seem to be arguing that she’s a bobble-headed little girl who needs to be protected from big bad boys her own age. It’s subtle but it shows that you think that boys have more responsibility for their actions than girls. [/QUOTE] No debate? This is a forum called “Great Debates.” Read the OP again. This is actually, literally, the opposite of what you’re saying it is. You and **Diogenes** are arguing with a group of posters who were, in turn, arguing with the OP, who was arguing against the statement “Todd is a douchebag.” The reason that this is getting skipped over is because a few of you can’t seem to handle the fact that yes, he was a douchebag, and you’d prefer to talk about what was wrong with her. And that’s the paternalistic “boys will be boys” bullshit that’s been going on for centuries, and it isn’t something you can get away from by insisting that you’re the REAL feminist. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/91 "2009-07-25T15:40:58Z")
I haven’t seen one person say that Todd isn’t a douchebag. You’ll have to provide a cite saying that otherwise save your straw for your horses. All I see is me saying, “Yeah he’s a douchebag, and she was naive.”, and **Diogenes** saying, “Yeah he was a douchebag, but she should’ve known that before fucking him.”, at no point is ANYONE saying he wasn’t a douchebag. So I know the forum is called, ‘Great Debates’, but the title of the forum doesn’t change the immutable fact of life that you can’t have a debate about something EVERYONE AGREES UPON. People have to disagree for there to be a debate. Since everyone agrees that Todd is a jerk, we are debating the point people disagree upon, whether or not Kathy was naive. Glad I was able to help you with your ignorance regarding the meaning of the word, ‘debate’. ---
**Author:** ![PeskiPiksi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@PeskiPiksi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeskiPiksi)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/92 "2009-07-25T15:42:27Z")
To be fair, she didn’t write that, the blogger did. I guess what it comes down to is what do you see as the bigger"sin"? Being naive, clueless, and a bit stupid, or being manipulative, callous, and deceitful? No contest for me…he’s the bigger jerk here. Sure, she should have known better, but I can’t believe you people who don’t have a little sympathy for her. She was used and thrown away, which hurts, whether you’re male or female. Everyone does something stupid at some point in their life. Not everyone acts like this guy did–most of us try to treat other people with some measure of decency and respect at all times. We don’t take advantage of other people just because the opportunity presents itself. YMM (obviously) vary. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/93 "2009-07-25T15:45:31Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I haven’t seen one person say that Todd isn’t a douchebag. You’ll have to provide a cite saying that otherwise save your straw for your horses. All I see is me saying, “Yeah he’s a douchebag, and she was naive.”, and **Diogenes** saying, “Yeah he was a douchebag, but she should’ve known that before fucking him.”, at no point is ANYONE saying he wasn’t a douchebag. So I know the forum is called, ‘Great Debates’, but the title of the forum doesn’t change the immutable fact of life that you can’t have a debate about something EVERYONE AGREES UPON. People have to disagree for there to be a debate. Since everyone agrees that Todd is a jerk, we are debating the point people disagree upon, whether or not Kathy was naive. > > Glad I was able to help you with your ignorance regarding the meaning of the word, ‘debate’. Holy shit, you’re serious, aren’t you? I mean, I’ve seen you do this kind of thing a million times, but it’s so much funnier when you’re talking to me. You want a link to the first post in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/94 "2009-07-25T15:47:24Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Holy shit, you’re serious, aren’t you? I mean, I’ve seen you do this kind of thing a million times, but it’s so much funnier when you’re talking to me. > > You want a link to the first post in this thread? Wow, you really still don’t understand what a debate is? Like my post’s meaning just blew past you huh? Ok. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/95 "2009-07-25T15:47:46Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Yea, what a poor little victim. :rolleyes: That was what made me say she did worse to the high school boyfriend. She basically did the exact same thing she’s upset about. She lied to get what she wanted from a guy then dumped him cold. It’s worse because she strung him along for a lot longer. Amazing that this guy who stayed with her and cared about her wasn’t worthy of her hymen, but some sleazy douche at a frat party was. I’ll never understand why so many women hook up with guys who are OBVIOUS douchebags, and then are shocked when they ACT like douchebags. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/96 "2009-07-25T15:49:48Z")
> [@PeskiPiksi](#): > > To be fair, she didn’t write that, the blogger did. > > I guess what it comes down to is what do you see as the bigger"sin"? Being naive, clueless, and a bit stupid, or being manipulative, callous, and deceitful? > > No contest for me…he’s the bigger jerk here. Sure, she should have known better, but I can’t believe you people who don’t have a little sympathy for her. She was used and thrown away, which hurts, whether you’re male or female. > > Everyone does something stupid at some point in their life. Not everyone acts like this guy did–most of us try to treat other people with some measure of decency and respect at all times. We don’t take advantage of other people just because the opportunity presents itself. > > YMM (obviously) vary. No not everyone treats people as this guy did, that’s why everyone in this thread agrees that he’s a douchebag. But the point is that this chick was out to lose her virginity too. She decided that her HS boyfriend wasn’t worth it, and broke her promise to him, and then went looking for some guy in College. She joined a Sorority and went to Fraternity parties. She PLANNED to lose her virginity at a drunken frat party. Umm…yeah. I guess she never watched a single teen movie in her life. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/97 "2009-07-25T15:51:15Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Wow, you really still don’t understand what a debate is? Like my post’s meaning just blew past you huh? > > Ok. Yes, that is correct. I’ve got a mind like a _broad_. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/98 "2009-07-25T15:51:49Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That was what made me say she did worse to the high school boyfriend. She basically did the exact same thing she’s upset about. She lied to get what she wanted from a guy then dumped him cold. It’s worse because she strung him along for a lot longer. Amazing that this guy who stayed with her and cared about her wasn’t worthy of her hymen, but some sleazy douche at a frat party was. > > I’ll never understand why so many women hook up with guys who are OBVIOUS douchebags, and then are shocked when they ACT like douchebags. Yeah, it seems to me that the signs were there. What’s weird to me is that both the guy and the girl were seeking the same thing…sex. The guy began to show his true colors showing that he was just in it for the sex and wasn’t interested much outside of that. They are the same age, but she’s naive and he’s a predator. Umm…what? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/99 "2009-07-25T15:52:50Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I’ve got a mind like a _broad_. You said it not me. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037/100 "2009-07-25T17:48:46Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well there is your problem right there. There is no debate to be had about whether or not Todd is a douchebag, everyone agrees that he is. Oh really? Then why did Diogenes say: > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t think it really IS worth discussing. I don’t think he really did anything all that wrong. Does that sound to you like he is putting any of the blame on Todd? No. He is saying that Todd didn’t do anything wrong. So, maybe you can revise your stance? Since all the straw men in this thread belong to you. > [@](#): > > That’s why the debate has swung to Kathy’s culpability. You seem to be arguing that she’s a bobble-headed little girl who needs to be protected from big bad boys her own age. It’s subtle but it shows that you think that boys have more responsibility for their actions than girls. You just made that shit up, my dear. Who said she needed to be protected? Me, you say? Where? I think I’ve held her more than adequately culpable for her own bad decisions. I have made no excuses for her, and said nowhere that she needs “protection” except maybe the latex kind. I know, you say “it’s subtle” so that you can pretend I’ve said something I didn’t, then mow down that straw man. It’s your patented argumentation style, and I see Jimmy Chitwood is also familiar with it. The boy is more responsible because he actively, callously deceived and manipulated. If a woman did the same thing, believe me I’d be just as hard on her. You want to make this an issue of reverse sexism, but you’re creating that issue out of whole cloth, and that’s obvious to everyone but you and Diogenes, apparently. > [@mswas](#): > > What’s weird to me is that both the guy and the girl were seeking the same thing…sex. The guy began to show his true colors showing that he was just in it for the sex and wasn’t interested much outside of that. They are the same age, but she’s naive and he’s a predator. Umm…what? It’s obvious to me that Kathy also wanted LOVE and thought there might be some there. It’ also obvious that Todd made her think she was right, but he was bullshitting her to get in her pants. She was what, 18 or 19? It’s unfortunate that she was too naive and dim to see that Todd wasn’t the guy for her. I don’t think that in any way excuses his behavior. > [@DtC](#): > > That was what made me say she did worse to the high school boyfriend. She basically did the exact same thing she’s upset about. She lied to get what she wanted from a guy then dumped him cold. It’s worse because she strung him along for a lot longer. Amazing that this guy who stayed with her and cared about her wasn’t worthy of her hymen, but some sleazy douche at a frat party was. You think this high school boyfriend was ENTITLED to her virginity? She promised him and she changed her mind. That’s not allowed now, that makes her a bitch, but when Todd fucks her and changes his mind, that’s absolutely OK, and why should anyone have a problem with that? What hypocrisy. Really shameful what bullshit some people will spout to make a rhetorical point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psycho-letters-from-men-did-this-guy-deserve-the-article/504037.md?page=6)