# Pubbies to make it harder to investigate ethics violations. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 30, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310 "2004-12-30T20:56:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/1 "2004-12-30T20:56:52Z")
> [@](#): > > WASHINGTON, Dec. 29 - In the wake of back-to-back ethics slaps at the House majority leader, Tom DeLay, House Republicans are preparing to make it more difficult to initiate ethics investigations and could remove the Republican chairman who presided over the admonishments of Mr. DeLay last fall. > > A House leadership aide said a package of rules changes to be presented to the House when Congress convenes on Tuesday could include a plan that would require a majority vote of the ethics panel to pursue a formal investigation. Now, a deadlock on the panel, which is evenly split between parties, keeps a case pending. The possible change, the aide said, would mean that a tie vote would effectively dismiss the case. If you aren’t registered you should be. > **[G.O.P. to Make Ethics Inquiries Harder to Begin (Published 2004)](https://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/30/politics/gop-to-make-ethics-inquiries-harder-to-begin.html)** > > House Republicans are preparing to make it more difficult to initiate ethics investigations of members in wake of back-to-back ethics slaps at House majority leader Tom DeLay; Rep Joel Hefley, Republican who presided over admonishments of DeLay,... Give me a frigging break. Now the house pubbies want to prohibit ethics investigations? What have we got ourselves into? Screw them. How long before the pubbies just place themselves above the law? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/2 "2004-12-30T20:59:34Z")
I imagine Bob Packwood is dancing a jig at this very moment… ---
**Author:** ![Spree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@Spree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spree)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/3 "2004-12-30T21:19:47Z")
But they don’t have to place themselves above the law - much easier just to change it to suit their needs. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/4 "2004-12-30T21:58:12Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > I imagine Bob Packwood is dancing a jig at this very moment… Not to support what’s being done on the Ethics committee, but, hadn’t Packwood been pilloried by Democrats? If I’m wrong in my memory of this, I’ll apologize for the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/5 "2004-12-30T22:05:35Z")
The Senate Ethics Committee vote to expel Packwood was _unanimous_. He resigned before the issue went to the full Senate. [Linkety link](http://www.now.org/nnt/11-95/packwood.html). Did you think it was a partisan witch hunt? Why? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/6 "2004-12-30T22:10:10Z")
Thanks, **ElvisL1ves**. **Otakuloki** , Packwood did himself in. The women that testified weren’t tracked down, they came forward on their own. Not to mention, the man wrote some very damning evidence in his own journal. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/7 "2004-12-30T22:26:57Z")
**Maureen** , and **ElvisL1ves** , my understanding of what happened to Packwood had been mostly formed by reading _ahem_ Anne Coulter’s account. At the time that the whole mess was coming down around his ears, I was still in the Navy, and mostly underway. News reports were less regular than mail service, and **ElvisL1ves** may remember my complaints about that. 😉 Certainly nothing on the NOW page that **ElvisL1ves** linked actually contradicts what I recall of the account I’d read. But, since then I’ve paid a bit more attention to her screeds and have been less than impressed, so I’m not claiming that her interpretation or my memory (on this issue, at least) are accurate, let alone infallible. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/8 "2004-12-30T22:43:20Z")
Ooooooooooh, the blond harpy. Yeah, I tend to tune her out. Packwood was derided by members of both parties, including Sen. Rick Santorum (hehehehehee, Santorum, sorry, I know I’m being childish, but it’s so fitting…) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/9 "2004-12-30T22:46:51Z")
“Iinformed” and “Ann Coulter” in the same sentence. That’s just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/10 "2004-12-30T22:53:17Z")
But she uses footnotes, I tells ya! Footnotes! ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/11 "2004-12-30T23:05:26Z")
Without commenting on the merits of the proposal, you are aware, I assume, that if it were to pass it would become equally difficult for the Republicans to initiate BS partisan ethics investigations against Democrats as the converse, right? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/12 "2004-12-30T23:09:26Z")
But that’s equally unacceptable. I don’t care what side of the fence the person in question comes down on, **manny**. If they fucked up, then they fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/13 "2004-12-30T23:16:51Z")
On the brighter side, it may mean we don’t have to hear any more pious, hypocritical nonsense about how they’re restoring honor and dignity to American politics. We can always hope so, anyway. **manny** , got any recent examples of “_BS partisan_” ethics investigations you’d like to lay out for us to show what won’t happen anymore? ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/14 "2004-12-30T23:17:20Z")
True dat. And again, I don’t have a position on this yet. But I will say that just as you want to get the bad guys (or investigate the _possibly_ bad guys, as the case may be), you want to prevent a group of bad guys from ganging up and going after someone innocent out of partisan pique. The proposal would essentially require at least one person from each party on the committee to find that an investigation is appropriate. That doesn’t sound so bad on its face. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/15 "2004-12-30T23:30:46Z")
[b[Manny\*\*, Tom DeLay (R-Undead) is a weeping pustule. You guys don’t watch it, Texas ethical standards will become the norm, and that is _not_ a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/16 "2004-12-30T23:31:57Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > Without commenting on the merits of the proposal, you are aware, I assume, that if it were to pass it would become equally difficult for the Republicans to initiate BS partisan ethics investigations against Democrats as the converse, right? w/o commenting on the merits of the proposal, you are aware, I would assume, that the concern is that it would also make it harder to initiate **legitimate** investigations, right? and at at time when there’s a certain amount of controversy surrounding Mr. DeLay? that all **either** party would have to do is control/cajole members of their own party? ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/17 "2004-12-30T23:33:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **manny** , got any recent examples of “_BS partisan_” ethics investigations you’d like to lay out for us to show what won’t happen anymore? Not lately – as you doubtless know, both parties have been in something of a truce over that sort of thing. But if the truce is ended with the DeLay investigation, this might be something the Democrats benefit from. Any proposed retaliatory shot would have to gain the concurrance of at least one Democrat on the committee. Don’t get me wrong – politically, the Democrats should and will scream bloody murder about this and score points appropriately. But realistically, it could be a very good thing for them for them to get outvoted on this. Since they can vote as a bloc and still lose the point _and_ win the day, that’s exactly what they should do. But let’s not pretend it’s anything but politics. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/18 "2004-12-30T23:47:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > DeLay (R-Undead) is a weeping pustule. You guys don’t watch it, Texas ethical standards will become the norm, and that is not a good thing. My recollection is that at least one Republican member voted to initiate the two recent investigations of DeLay – I know that at least one Republican voted for the rebukes he got. If my memory is correct, this change would not have helped him. Am I correct? I don’t claim certainty on this matter. > [@wring](#): > > w/o commenting on the merits of the proposal, you are aware, I would assume, that the concern is that it would also make it harder to initiate legitimate investigations, right? and at at time when there’s a certain amount of controversy surrounding Mr. DeLay? that all either party would have to do is control/cajole members of their own party? Yes. That’s why I don’t have a position just yet – I’m still thinking about it. That said, Congress is still a political body. If DeLay were to be indicted, for example, I have complete confidence that no amout of cajoling could convince all five members to prevent further investigation of him. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/19 "2004-12-31T00:17:37Z")
Full disclosure: I _loathe_ Tom DeLay. He’s like a Betty Noyer, ya know? As a recovering Texan, I have followed Texas politics at a safe remove. I have become increasingly dismayed at the disproportion of Texas as a political center, and its malignant impact on our beloved country. You live in New York, right? You think you know something about political corruption. I remind you of Upton Sinclair’s remark: There are two things no civilized person should have to know. One is what really goes into sausage, and the other is what a Texas politician does for his daily bread. Honeyboy, he ain’t shitting one little bit. The fate of our nation rests in the hands of the honest conservatives. I include you, with the boundless optimism that I commit no flattery. I have said this before: if the nation finally sickens of GeeDubya (from my lips to the ears of Allah!), the first bellwhether would be the fall of DeLay. If GeeDubya gets to be a political liability, congresscritters will do the rat-dive, overboard. If they lose their fear of DeLay, the blood will be in the water. This latest set of moves are intended either to _demonstrate_ DeLay’s power or to _protect_ it. And if ever a Congressman’s behavior rated a thorough investigation, its him. Google Tom Delay and ethics. Take a sandwhich, you’ll be a while. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310/20 "2004-12-31T00:42:56Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > Not lately – as you doubtless know, both parties have been in something of a truce over that sort of thing. How about, um, slightly less recent, then? As in \*before \* the last inauguration, perhaps? Something you might have actually tolerated, on the nakedly-political grounds you now deplore? Jog your memory any? > [@](#): > > But if the truce is ended with the DeLay investigation, this might be something the Democrats benefit from. What DeLay investigation? What vote? Earth to Manny: DeLay’s own party controls the committee. DeLay controls the party in the House, including assigning all committee chairmen, including the one who’d have to go along with this. Much, much easier to dismiss any legitimate investigation into him as partisan sniping and sour grapes, ain’t it? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubbies-to-make-it-harder-to-investigate-ethics-violations/282310.md?page=2)