# Public school - can the admin. do this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 7, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-school-can-the-admin-do-this/223298 "2004-01-07T22:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AngelicGemma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/439d5e/32.png) [@AngelicGemma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelicGemma)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-school-can-the-admin-do-this/223298/21 "2004-01-08T13:21:19Z")
My school did this for a year. However only the older students (16-18) who didn’t wear uniform had to have them. The teachers did too. However after a year the school decided it was a waste of time. As far as I know it legal. ---
**Author:** ![AngelicGemma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/439d5e/32.png) [@AngelicGemma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelicGemma)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-school-can-the-admin-do-this/223298/22 "2004-01-08T13:24:13Z")
Oh, I should add they had to be worn on a chain around the neck so they could always be seen. As the teachers had to do it too noone had a problem with it. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-school-can-the-admin-do-this/223298/23 "2004-01-08T13:40:19Z")
It seems it would be more practical to tattoo the students with their social security numbers. Or maybe subcutaneous RFIDs. Either way. Tongue planted firmly in cheek ---
**Author:** ![MaryEFoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MaryEFoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaryEFoo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-school-can-the-admin-do-this/223298/24 "2004-01-08T23:32:45Z")
Do students have to ‘swipe’ the cards as they move to a different location, so students’ locations can be tracked? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-school-can-the-admin-do-this/223298/25 "2004-01-09T00:01:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NinjaChick \* > \*\*Clarification: We also have a (as of recently, VERY strict) hall-pass policy. Even if I’m going (literally) a mere 20 feet down the hall to the water fountain, I need to have a signed, dated pass with the time written on it. We also have a recently-installed security camera system (which was laughably easy to map out, including the three dummy cameras). There are constantly teachers and campus security folks ‘patrolling’ (the term they use) for us miscreant students. > > I suppose I’m something of a dreamer; believing in “innocent until proven guilty” and whatnot. :rolleyes: \*\* I’m sorry to sound like an old fart, but, yes, you are a dreamer. You seem like an intelligent person, so try thinking outside of your own point of reference for a moment. Assume I see you walking the halls when you and every other student is supposed to be in class. Why shouldn’t I find out who you are and why you aren’t in class? But someone GAVE you permission to get a drink of water? Okay, tell me who it was. Gee, maybe something like showing me a signed pass by that teacher would make things easier for both of us! Take your average high school with 500 or more students. Odds are good that: a) No one, no matter how good they are at recognizing faces, knows all 500 people by sight. b) A small but determined group of those 500 would like to cut class, hang out by the bleachers and smoke (or worse), commit random acts of vandalism, or beat up a fellow student for whatever reason. c) A small but troubling number of drug dealers/ex-boyfriends/gang members/general crackpots would like nothing better than to walk in and look for someone they have business with or a grudge against. I’m genuinely amused by those who are arguing the point “what if a bully takes your ID” If the bullies are so bad that student ID’s are being stolen, the school has a serious discipline problem, which calls for drastic measures, such as requiring students to have ID’s. And you go to the office and report it lost, for crying out loud. My kids go through at least three ID cards each year. And about the security cameras? I’m sure Zoe wishes they had been around (even the dummies). ---
**Author:** ![Daikona](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@Daikona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daikona)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-school-can-the-admin-do-this/223298/26 "2004-01-09T02:11:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoe \* > \*\*Ninjachick, in 1970, I was beaten by a trespasser who was with six of his friends. I was in the emergency room for seven hours and in the hospital for three days. It’s really not always about you. And it’s not always about us. Find something worthy of your rebellious spirit. \*\* Ah, but see, a lot of these schools aren’t requiring that you present ID to get into the building, just that you present it whenever someone happens to ask for it. That’s not actually going to stop anyone from going into the building, now is it? Also, I have a a friend who was beaten senseless by some of his fellow students while he was in high school, and spent a couple of days in the hospital. Requiring ID to enter the building hardly would have prevented that one. My problem with these ID issues is twofold. First, the way a lot of schools implement it, it isn’t going to stop anyone entering the building, it’s just going to get them asked to leave if someone happens to ask for ID. Secondly, the ID doesn’t solve anything. It lets people feel good about having “done something”, which is really what a lot of these school security measures boil down to. And when people feel good about having done something, they tend to not bother actually addressing the problems that are there. After all, they already did something. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-school-can-the-admin-do-this/223298/27 "2004-01-09T02:12:21Z")
When you get your driver’s license you’ll find that the police will expect you to have it on you **whenever you drive** and leaving it in your bookbag won’t be considered a very good excuse. Innocent until proven guilty is one of those phrases, like a first amendment right to speech, that people wave around without thinking. It has a very specific meaning, which has nothing to do with your case. This is what comes of allowing students to think they have rights. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-school-can-the-admin-do-this/223298/28 "2004-01-09T03:53:29Z")
In any event, the law that gives you 24 hours to produce a driver’s license is probably intended to cover those whose licenses may have been stolen or unavailable for some other reason. That 24 hours gives the person time to get a duplicate license or find the original. In any event, the rule requiring that students carry their student ID is there for your protection. Without it, anyone can waltz into the building for who-knows-what purpose. If the staff rely on their memories, an ex-student with a grudge can come onto campus to wreak havoc, and no one will question his presence because they **think** he belongs there. Having that ID (or that hall pass) assures them that you **do** belong there at that particular time. I’ll grant you that it is a pain in the ass to keep it on you, but you can always do what a lot of students at my school do and get a cardholder that goes around your neck. Robin ---
**Author:** ![dakravel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@dakravel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dakravel)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-school-can-the-admin-do-this/223298/29 "2004-01-09T05:15:59Z")
> [@](#): > > I suppose I’m something of a dreamer; believing in “innocent until proven guilty” and whatnot. There are definitely better things to get worked up about. Just remember this one thing: at school, you have no rights. (I’m only kinda kidding by the way, it’s mostly true) > [@](#): > > My problem with these ID issues is twofold. First, the way a lot of schools implement it, it isn’t going to stop anyone entering the building, it’s just going to get them asked to leave if someone happens to ask for ID. Secondly, the ID doesn’t solve anything. It lets people feel good about having “done something”, which is really what a lot of these school security measures boil down to. And when people feel good about having done something, they tend to not bother actually addressing the problems that are there. After all, they already did something. I’d have to wonder exactly what problems the school was having that prompted this change in policy. I doubt they were having many off-campus intruders coming onto campus to harass the children of the school. You’re assuming that this ID thing was to prevent non-students to come onto campus, when it may have been instated for a different reason entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-school-can-the-admin-do-this/223298/30 "2004-01-09T08:15:39Z")
> [@](#): > > And about the security cameras? I’m sure Zoe wishes they had been around (even the dummies). Another teacher was a witness and the perps were nabbed. One of them became my student when I transferred to that school. You never know. I kind of liked the kid. > [@](#): > > **Daikona** Ah, but see, a lot of these schools aren’t requiring that you present ID to get into the building, just that you present it whenever someone happens to ask for it. That’s not actually going to stop anyone from going into the building, now is it? I think those schools which require visible identification at all times have more on the ball. That way, if someone is spotted without an ID, those responsible for the students can at least take notice. Every little bit helps. It won’t prevent someone from entering, but it might discourage others. I’m sorry about your friend. Student identification cards would not solve that problem. It isn’t designed to. They won’t stop terrorist attacks on the neighborhood either. Does that mean that schools shouldn’t use every reasonable means of identifying students and non students? _We are responsible for doing whatever we can, within reason, to protect the students._ Other measures might have prevented your friend from being beaten. Someone else would fight against _those_ measures. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-school-can-the-admin-do-this/223298.md?page=1)