Public Service Message-Beware of SS saucepans

I think the pan boiling dry atleast once in it’s life is a reasonable expectation to design for. We’re not all perfect.

God, I miss Spy:frowning:

Thank God, I was beginning to think that my fmaily was really screwed up. Let’s see, at age 12 I was in 7th grade, 6th grade at the least. I’d been staying at home after school and during the summer since 4th grade and knew how to use the stove and cook dinner at that time. (I don’t remember when I was allowed to use the stove when Mom wasn’t home, but I do know that eventually I could.)
I don’t think that 12 is too young to stay home alone and I don’t think that 12 is too young to use a stove.

I also don’t think that Martha Stewart is going to pay for the floor.

Jesus H. Christ people, there’s no such thing as an indestructible material. I’ve boiled pans dry on occasion too, but never long enough to destroy the pan. You have to leave it on pretty damn long for that to happen. If the pan melted, clearly it was left dry on the burner for more than a few minutes; I’d wager no less than 15 at a bare minimum, probably more like half an hour or more. As for the explosion, go read Jurph’s post again. He’s not just making shit up. For a safe but messy demonstration of thermal expansion effects, put an egg in a microwave.

Can I sue you if I do that and my microwave oven gets dirty?

Surely someone must be sued?

Is suing people some new kind of comparative social acticity and if so, how does it work?

“…that’s nothing, dude, last week I filed a lawsuit this big…” :confused:

Yeah, WHAT THE FUCK?!?!? You should have *at least * one babysitter for each child under 21 at all times. Liability, baby!

The Pan: I think it’s reasonable to design a pan that will burn dry at least once during it’s “guarantee” (be it lifetime, 10 years, whatever). I venture to say it’s happened to all of us. Furthermore, I venture to say that it’s happened to all of us during our adult lives.

12-Year-Old: I’m wondering if those who disagree that a 12-year-old should be left at home alone have poor memories of their childhoods (especially that age). Or maybe they had over-protective parents. But even at that, my father was very over-protective. During the summer between grade 7 and 8, I was paid $25/week to babysit my kid brother. At the time, he was 7. I was also in charge of supervising him at the public pool, if we decided to go swimming that day.

I also had to run the dishwasher at about 5 o’clock (so there were no dirty dishes when my parents got home), as well as start supper. I was allowed having friends over, but when my friends ended up being a bunch of guys, my dad said it “looked bad” to the neighbours, though he trusted me. Hell, all they were interested in was my best friend and my 10-speed and my brother’s BMX, but whatever. They would have had no trouble if my friends would have been girls.

Yeah, but I think that if you elect to leave a 12-year-old alone, you should accept responsibility yourself for what happens. Once you’ve purchased it, it isn’t Marth’s pan anymore.

For those who chide me for leaving a 12 year old alone at home:

It turns out that Mrs grienspace has actually had a long standing prohibition in effect against Miss grienspace12 using the stove when no adult is around (I was not aware of that). It has also be a longstanding rule that Miss grienspace12 should not be home alone with friends (I was aware of that, but I sort of thought we were outgrowing that rule). It turns out that Mrs grienspace was counting on Miss grienspace22 who recently returned to live with us for a couple of months (or years) to be around to supervise the home while we were out working. Alas, Miss grienspace22 didsn’t see anything wrong with taking off for a few hours.

In any case I disagree with my wife. Miss grienspace12 is school smart and street smart. I do not regard this event though instigated by her was caused by a lack of intelligence or maturity or awareness. She and her friend were about 15 feet away from the stove communicating through MSN on the computer. They forgot. When they did become aware there was a problem she reacted by picking up what appeared to be a perfectly intact pot although obviously very hot. There is no evidence of melted metal in the catch basin under the heating element. For a second maybe after picking up the pot all appeared to be fine.

Now if it was a simple sauce pan like they used to make, whether cast iron or aluminum or steel, one would expect that after decades of experience by humanity with the interaction of saucepans and stove top elements that we and our children would be made aware of the potential for sauce pan explosions. After all, we know not to mix ammonia and bleach or leave electric kettle chords dangling over the counter. But sauce pans never used to explode.

Today in this high tech world we design utensils and implements with defined and limited criteria and sometimes develop a product with hidden liabilities or defects that we are totally unaware of. Don’t you think that perhaps someone at Martha Stewart should have said “Lets do a test and see what happens when we allow a copper/aluminum alloy/laminate base for a stainless sauce pan to sit on a stove top element for one hour”?

Now I studied materials way back in university in a civil engineering program and this sauce pan explosion came as a complete surprise to me. I assumed it would be for others despite the logical explanations presented in this thread. That is what upsets me more than anything, being surprised. Martha Stewart at least should have warned us that this new fancy sauce pan could explode, and I feel it is now incumbent upon myself to warn Martha Stewart so that they can warn others.

I can’t remember ever doing it myself but i wouldn’t be suprised if I did. As sturmhauke said, the pan was almost certainly left on the stove dry for a significant amount of time. I’m not saying that the kid lied but she probaby didn’t realize how much time the pan was on there. In any event, why take a dry, red hot pan off of the stove? What are you going to do with it? Just turn off the burner and wait.

That being said, I don’t think that leaving a 12 year old alone for a few hours is unreasonable. I was left alone and cooked my own meals at about that age.

Haj

PS The brilliant Lazlo Toth was the pen name for Don Novello who also created the character Father Guido Sarducci. His first Toth letters were published in the early 1970’s which predates Spy by around 15 years. I loved Spy too but those last couple of years were hit or miss.

That’s true, but i still miss it.

Growing up as i did in Australia, i never saw any of Novello’s earlier stuff. My first exposure to the Lazlo Toth letters was when i lived in Canada for a couple of years in the early '90s and was a regular reader of Spy. I still haven’t seen much of his earlier work, and i think i should buy the books.

Oh, and on the issue at hand:

I’ve only let the pot boil dry twice. Both times, i put it on to boil for a cup of tea, and then sat down at my computer to read the SDMB.

So i’m blaming you guys. :slight_smile:

Maybe it has a warranty.

grienspace, just out of curiosity, why was your daughter boiling a pan of water, if she’s not allowed to use the stove on her own? Was she, perhaps, making her own lunch?

Several people here are talking about the alleged irresponsibility of allowing a 12y/o to use the stove or oven. Seems to me that, in general*, a kid who’s capable of fixing hirself something to eat is a responsible kid. I mean, what’s the alternative? Wait on hir hand and foot until s/he hits eighteen, so they get a grossly overinflated sense of entitlement and no acquired skills or common sense? And then turn them loose to boil pots dry in their own apartment/dorm room, and wreak other kinds of havoc? Let them live and learn, and start early.

*Of course, that doesn’t quite apply in this instance, since miss grienspace12 was actually breaking two rules. But perhaps the fallout from this should be “Let’s go over some kitchen basics” as opposed to “You’re never touching the stove again!”.

And will there be/have their been any repercussions for miss grienspace22?

I melted the bottom off of a pan once, with a stove, by boiling a pan dry.

I strained a muscle while lifting a motorcycle off of the ground- I didn’t sue Kawasaki.

I burned myself by touching hot things- hot things made by a company that I didn’t sue.

I got a big lump on the side of my head by having the car I was driving move sideways into the side of my head. I drove it into an intersection with a red light. I didn’t sue Ford (the manufacturer of my car), Chevy (the manufacturer of her car) or the guy who paved the road. Why? Because when you drive your car in front of another car that has the right of way, and is travelling about 35mph, it’s gonna hit you pretty frickin’ hard.

If you heat aluminum hot enough, it can reach a semi-solid state, where it is slightly mushy. Adding silicon to the alloy will raise this temperature until it equals the melting temperature, where the aluminum is completely liquid (however, it also makes the aluminum harder to machine, so it’s unlikely that a pot will use this more costly alloy). The copper coating on the aluminum has a higher melting point, and thay may have kept the molten aluminum inside, but having the grating, or “electric spiral” removed, may have caused it to “leak” the molten aluminum out. I’m fairly sure that the “reasonable” operating temperatures encountered by a pan are quite below the 1000º mark (Fº or Cº, it doesn’t matter) After 1000º, it isn’t cooking you are doing with your cookware, it’s metalsmithing.

You were using your cookware in a way inconsistent with it’s labelling.

[QUOTE=Rilchiam]
grienspace, just out of curiosity, why was your daughter boiling a pan of water, if she’s not allowed to use the stove on her own? Was she, perhaps, making her own lunch?

Yes. macaroni and cheeze. She’s probably done it a 100 times, but mostly with mom at home.

The shock and awe of the experience, as well as the embarrassment and the continued prohibition for now will suffice .

Did you mean miss12 there, or miss22? I’m asking about 22, who left 12 on her own when she was supposed to be supervising.

I’m pretty sure warranties don’t extend to acts of negligence or wear.

If you still have whatever manual or brochure came with that saucepan, you might want to re-read it. Every SS pan I have came with instructions not to use it on high heat, not to heat it when empty, and not to boil it dry, warning that if you do so it could explode. That’s just the kind of thing that can happen when you get a pan too hot.