# Public Speaking (controversial) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616 "2013-07-16T00:20:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/161 "2013-07-17T16:48:48Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > This. What I found instead was second Christmas. It’s almost as if Christmas expanded through some sort of Christmaskrieg. ---
**Author:** ![rEVOLutionary](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revolutionary/32/7311_2.png) [@rEVOLutionary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rEVOLutionary)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/162 "2013-07-17T16:51:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > using Hitler as a paragon of public speaking does imply some fucked-up things about you as a person. Just because you make assumptions doesn’t mean that they’re true. > [@](#): > > Your quasi-defenses of him and his speeches are worse. Really? Show me where I defended him. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/163 "2013-07-17T16:56:49Z")
> [@rEVOLutionary](#): > > Just because you make assumptions doesn’t mean that they’re true. I didn’t make any assumptions. I told you something flat-out based on what you said. > [@](#): > > Really? Show me where I defended him. I already did this, and other people already explained the problem. If you had the communication skills of a brain-damaged iguana you’d have at least acknowledged the issue. Instead, you not only brought up Hitler unbidden, you’ve failed to understand why it came off badly, told other people they’re wrong for taking issue with it, and said you refuse to shape your message to your audience. That’ll work great if you’re spouting slogans alone in your basement, but it’ll ensure you remain terrible at spreading any kind of message in conversation or in a public forum. What a weird coincidence it is that racists are drawn to Ron Paul’s platform this way and that they’re so fucking terrible at considering historical context. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/164 "2013-07-17T16:58:03Z")
> [@rEVOLutionary](#): > > > [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > > > It means that Judaism isn’t just a religion. It’s also a culture and an ethnicity. My temple is full of atheist Jews. Are you okay with them? > > Judaism is just a religion. You cannot be Jewish and be an atheist. That’s like saying Christianity is a race… You do realize that your oratorical role model thought of Jews as a “race”? His hatred didn’t exclude atheists or converts from Judaism. All he required was for someone to have “Jewish blood”. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/165 "2013-07-17T16:58:06Z")
> [@rEVOLutionary](#): > > Judaism is just a religion. You cannot be Jewish and be an atheist. So people who claim just that are being uppity? ---
**Author:** ![rEVOLutionary](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revolutionary/32/7311_2.png) [@rEVOLutionary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rEVOLutionary)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/166 "2013-07-17T17:02:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I didn’t make any assumptions. I told you something flat-out based on what you said. You assumed that I implied that I was a neo-Nazi by saying Hitler was a great speaker. You’re wrong. > [@](#): > > I already did this, and other people already explained the problem. If you had the communication skills of a brain-damaged iguana you’d have at least acknowledged the issue. Give me a specific example of where I defended Hitler. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > You do realize that your role model thought of Jews as a “race”? His hatred didn’t exclude atheists or converts from Judaism. All he required was for someone to have “Jewish blood”. I don’t care what he thought of them to be. Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/167 "2013-07-17T17:03:16Z")
You know who I trust as an expert on Judaism? People who say they admire Hitler. > [@rEVOLutionary](#): > > You assumed that I implied that I was a neo-Nazi by saying Hitler was a great speaker. I did not assume you were implying you were a neo-Nazi. I said your choice of Hitler as a figure to emulate in any capacity says some fucked-up things about you as a person, and it really does. > [@](#): > > Give me a specific example of where I defended Hitler. I already did that. If you were too dumb to see the problem the first time, I’d be dumb to try to explain it a second time. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/168 "2013-07-17T17:05:20Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > You do realize that your oratorical role model thought of Jews as a “race”? His hatred didn’t exclude atheists or converts from Judaism. All he required was for someone to have “Jewish blood”. You don’t understand, when he referred to taking back Germany for the “German People” he included Jews who were born in Germany and spoke German. They were just fine with Hitler. It wasn’t a race thing at all. ETA: The OP is such a moron I guess I should point out that the above is sarcastic. I don’t want to get his newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![rEVOLutionary](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revolutionary/32/7311_2.png) [@rEVOLutionary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rEVOLutionary)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/169 "2013-07-17T17:13:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You know who I trust as an expert on Judaism? People who say they admire Hitler. > I did not assume you were implying you were a neo-Nazi. I said your choice of Hitler as a figure to emulate in any capacity says some fucked-up things about you as a person, and it really does. What “fucked-up things” does it say about me, specifically? That I think Hitler was a great speaker? Okay, I don’t think that really makes me a bad person… > [@](#): > > I already did that. If you were too dumb to see the problem the first time, I’d be dumb to try to explain it a second time. No, you gave a half-ass response that purposely made a lot of false assumptions. Like when I said that I thought Hitler was driven more by love of the German people than by contempt of the Zionists, you took that as an “excuse”, yet you completely disregarded the next sentence where I said that, whether or not the above was true or not was irrelevant because he still killed innocent people. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/170 "2013-07-17T17:14:44Z")
> [@rEVOLutionary](#): > > I want to not only have an a massive physical and mental presence, but I want to be able to share my “wealth of knowledge” with others and inspire/motivate others (I want to eventually enter politics after I’m done with sports). Boiled down to its essence, you want to be a huge dickhead. Luckily for you, it seems you’re 90% of the way there! ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/171 "2013-07-17T17:16:16Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Zionists are anti-Semites? This is getting weirder with every post. I think this thread is going precisely according to plan. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/172 "2013-07-17T17:20:06Z")
> [@rEVOLutionary](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > You do realize that your role model thought of Jews as a “race”? His hatred didn’t exclude atheists or converts from Judaism. All he required was for someone to have “Jewish blood”. > > I don’t care what he thought of them to be. Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity. You do realize that your role model went beyond just thinking bad things about Jews (as well as Gypsies, gay people, Poles, Russians, etc.)? ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/173 "2013-07-17T17:20:43Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Boiled down to its essence, you want to be a huge dickhead. Luckily for you, it seems you’re 90% of the way there! That’s not what he said. He said he wants to use his wealth of knowledge about how amazing Hitler was [sub]at public speaking, in all other respects he was a terrible monster[/sub] in order to inspire and motive them. He finds Hitler very inspirational [sub]at public speaking, in all other respects he was a terrible monster[/sub] and wants to be just like him [sub]at public speaking, in all other respects he was a terrible monster[/sub]. He can only hope he is as successful in politics as Hitler was [sub]at public speaking, in all other respects he was a terrible monster[/sub] and that history will remember him as a second Hitler [sub]in the field of public speaking[/sub]. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/174 "2013-07-17T17:21:09Z")
> [@rEVOLutionary](#): > > 1. He’s not my role model. > 2. He did. I don’t. I hate all religions equally. :rolleyes: Hitler’s hatred of the Jews was based on race, not religion. You could be the fucking pope, but if you had a Jewish grandparent, in the eyes of the Nazis, you were a Jew. Plenty of people who weren’t “Jewish”, as in practicing Jews were slaughtered in the Holocaust. They simply had Jewish ancestry. (And no, Judaism isn’t just a religion, dumbass.) > [@rEVOLutionary](#): > > Everyone is born into circumstance. That argument is redundant. > > No deception, I want to keep my integrity. In what way is it reduntant? It’s true – Hitler most likely wouldn’t have been able to come to power if Germany hadn’t been in such a sorry state. At the very least, he would’ve had a much harder time of it. And by claiming Hitler as your favorite speaker, I don’t think you have any integrity to keep. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/175 "2013-07-17T17:22:44Z")
I say he’s booted out by Friday ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/176 "2013-07-17T17:23:31Z")
Can we at least kick him around some first? ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/177 "2013-07-17T17:25:10Z")
Is July stupid month? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/178 "2013-07-17T17:25:19Z")
> [@rEVOLutionary](#): > > What “fucked-up things” does it say about me, specifically? For starters it says you’re a self-important little moron who doesn’t give a shit about anybody as long as they give you the adoration you demand. You’re impressed by the accumulation of power for its own sake and your concern for human beings doesn’t go beyond lip service. You think see Hitler’s ability to take advantage of people’s prejudices and a situation of national collapse and rather than seeing it the way a thinking human being does - as a tragic confluence of circumstances that allowed a psychopath to ravage a continent at the cost of tens of millions of lives - you think ‘what can I emulate here and how can I turn things to my advantage?’ Shall I go on? > [@](#): > > Like when I said that I thought Hitler was driven more by love of the German people by contempt of the Zionists, you took that as an “excuse” It was an excuse, and it’s a bullshit excuse popular among people who admire Hitler’s views along with his speechifying. > [@](#): > > you completely disregarded the next sentence where I said that, whether or not the above was true or not was irrelevant because he still killed innocent people. If you really thought it was irrelevant, you wouldn’t have brought it up in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![rEVOLutionary](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revolutionary/32/7311_2.png) [@rEVOLutionary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rEVOLutionary)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/179 "2013-07-17T17:26:25Z")
hehe, ty men for bumping this thread and contributing to my legacy ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616/180 "2013-07-17T17:27:28Z")
Legacy? If you’re copping to trolling, you should know not the weirdest troll we’ve had this week, _and it’s Wednesday_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/public-speaking-controversial/663616.md?page=10)