# Pubs delay renewal of Voting Rights Act **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2006, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868 "2006-06-23T14:50:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/1 "2006-06-23T14:50:14Z")
[On Wednesday, House Republican leaders postponed a vote on renewing the Voting Rights Act.](http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060622/NEWS07/606220412/1009) The reason given is that the Act singles out Southern states for special oversight. However, some commentators, such as [Greg Palast](http://www.gregpalast.com/voting-rights-act-nailed-to-burning-cross-2#more-1432), charge the Pubs are actually preparing the ground to repeat what they did in 2000 and 2004: Disenfranchise large numbers of black (and predominantly Dem) voters. What’s up here? Is there any good reason not to renew the VRA as originally drafted? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/2 "2006-06-23T16:21:32Z")
[Another article.](http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/index.html#1463) [Parts of the Act are up for renewal in 2007, so I guess there’s no hurry.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act#Periodic_renewal) But you still have to wonder. I recall the Reagan Administration opposed renewing the VRA in 1982, but I forget what reasons they gave. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/3 "2006-06-23T16:35:47Z")
The preclearance thing is a little annoying. For example, I used to live in Saratoga County, New York. Now I live in Fairfax County, Virginia. Saratoga County can make any changes to votiing procedures it wants, with no oversight, but if Fairfax County wants to make the same changes, it first has to prove that it’s not doing it to be racist. While 42 years ago, Fairfax County was probably more likely than Saratoga County to tinker with their voting laws to exclude blacks, a lot has changed since then, and it’s just a bit annoying to be a citizen of a state the federal government feels needs special supervision to make sure it’s not racist. Either demand all states and areas get preclearance, or dump the requirement. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/4 "2006-06-23T17:16:06Z")
There were all sorts of charges of voter disenfranchisement in 2000 and 2004. How many were actually proven and prosecuted again? Seems like we have to go thru this rigamarole every few months. I don’t understand why it’s so hard to accept that Democrats can actually lose an election all on their own. ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Almanac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@Autumn\_Almanac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Almanac)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/5 "2006-06-23T17:21:40Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] There were all sorts of charges of voter disenfranchisement in 2000 and 2004. How many were actually proven and prosecuted again? Seems like we have to go thru this rigamarole every few months. I don’t understand why it’s so hard to accept that Democrats can actually lose an election all on their own. [/QUOTE] Indeed. Sometimes it seems like Bush opponents are taking a page from the Rove playbook: repeat a claim enough times and maybe people will believe it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/6 "2006-06-23T17:26:23Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] There were all sorts of charges of voter disenfranchisement in 2000 and 2004. How many were actually proven and prosecuted again? [/QUOTE] Prosecuted by Bush’s Justice Department? Let me think . . . ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/7 "2006-06-23T17:38:30Z")
Ok, I agree that there is relatively little evidence for a 2004 fraud (beyond the use of voting machines that are faulty, which smacks more of incompetence than malice to me), but I thought that Republican activists had deliberately disenfranchised black voters in a number of key Florida voting areas (what do you call them? constituencies?) in the 2000 race? I recall reading something about illegally striking everyone with a criminal records from the voting rolls, in another move likely to hurt the Democrats? Are these charges false, or simply unproven? ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Almanac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@Autumn\_Almanac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Almanac)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/8 "2006-06-23T17:41:00Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Prosecuted by Bush’s Justice Department? Let me think . . . [/QUOTE] So the fact that no prosecutions took place is evidence that voting fraud _did_ happen? Kind of a win-win situation, don’t you think? Reminds me of “the fact that no WMDs were found in Iraq is evidence that Saddam destroyed them before the war.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/9 "2006-06-23T19:13:22Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Clam] Ok, I agree that there is relatively little evidence for a 2004 fraud (beyond the use of voting machines that are faulty, which smacks more of incompetence than malice to me), but I thought that Republican activists had deliberately disenfranchised black voters in a number of key Florida voting areas (what do you call them? constituencies?) in the 2000 race? I recall reading something about illegally striking everyone with a criminal records from the voting rolls, in another move likely to hurt the Democrats? Are these charges false, or simply unproven? [/QUOTE] [Those charges are true.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Central_Voter_File#Problems_in_the_cleansing_process)[And these actions probably were illegal.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Central_Voter_File#Election_law_violations.2C_allegations.2C_lawsuits) (Which does not necessarily mean anyone involved in the process committed a prosecutable crime.) [Regarding 2004, read this.](http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/06/06/con06219.html) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/10 "2006-06-23T19:14:37Z")
[QUOTE=wm–] So the fact that no prosecutions took place is evidence that voting fraud _did_ happen? [/QUOTE] No, it just means **John Mace’s** implicit argument (no prosecutions, therefore no fraud) is meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/11 "2006-06-23T19:45:43Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Prosecuted by Bush’s Justice Department? Let me think . . . [/QUOTE] Voting is managed by the states, and states can prosecute as well. George Bush’s justice department is one path to take, but it needn’t be in the critical path. Not that I accept your premise, though, that “George Bush’s Justice Department” wouldn’t prosecute crimes if it had credible evidence presented to it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/12 "2006-06-23T20:10:26Z")
Okay, smart guy, who ran the state governments’ state departments in Ohio and Florida? You can have a minute to look it up if you wish. Or just look up “Katherine Harris” and “Kenneth Blackwell”, right under “Jeb Bush” and “Bob Taft”. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Not that I accept your premise, though, that “George Bush’s Justice Department” wouldn’t prosecute crimes if it had credible evidence presented to it. Oh, like torture or warrantless wiretapping, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Almanac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@Autumn\_Almanac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Almanac)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/13 "2006-06-23T20:12:53Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] No, it just means **John Mace’s** implicit argument (no prosecutions, therefore no fraud) is meaningless. [/QUOTE] Fair enough; I wish you’d made that clear in the first place instead of taking the “It’s all part of the conspiracy!” route. Thanks for the links. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/14 "2006-06-23T20:29:30Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] No, it just means **John Mace’s** implicit argument (no prosecutions, therefore no fraud) is meaningless. [/QUOTE] What do you mean it’s meaningless? You post an Op that references some guy’s blog claiming a massive Republican conspiracy to disenfranchise people and when I ask how many prosecutions there were it’s “meaningless”? Puh-leeze. When come back, bring facts, not some blogger’s opinion. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/15 "2006-06-23T20:45:22Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] What do you mean it’s meaningless? You post an Op that references some guy’s blog claiming a massive Republican conspiracy to disenfranchise people and when I ask how many prosecutions there were it’s “meaningless”? Puh-leeze. When come back, bring facts, not some blogger’s opinion. [/QUOTE] [Greg Palast](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Palast) is not “some blogger,” he is an internationally respected investigative journalist who definitively exposed the abuse of the voter-roll purge in Florida in 2000. (See the documentary [_Unprecedented_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unprecedented:_The_2000_Presidential_Election) for details.) Which, if nothing else, means his interpretation of the events of 2004 is at least worthy of your attention. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/16 "2006-06-23T21:16:01Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [Greg Palast](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Palast) is not “some blogger,” he is an internationally respected investigative journalist who definitively exposed the abuse of the voter-roll purge in Florida in 2000. (See the documentary [_Unprecedented_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unprecedented:_The_2000_Presidential_Election) for details.) Which, if nothing else, means his interpretation of the events of 2004 is at least worthy of your attention. [/QUOTE] Ooooh! His opinions about the abuse of the voter rolls are relevant because… he’s the one that first claimed that there was abuse of the voter rolls. Circular, meet argument. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/17 "2006-06-23T21:23:34Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Ooooh! His opinions about the abuse of the voter rolls are relevant because… he’s the one that first claimed that there was abuse of the voter rolls. Circular, meet argument. [/QUOTE] You’re missing the point. The abuse of the voter-roll purge in 2004 is no longer even disputed. It was a set of events that happened from very obvious motives. Jeb Bush, Katherine Harris, et al. got away with it because it was not clearly and unambiguously a crime. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/18 "2006-06-23T21:24:40Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] You’re missing the point. The abuse of the voter-roll purge in 2004 is no longer even disputed. It was a set of events that happened from very obvious motives. Jeb Bush, Katherine Harris, et al. got away with it because it was not clearly and unambiguously a crime. [/QUOTE] Sorry, I meant 2000, not 2004. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/19 "2006-06-23T21:29:24Z")
Regarding the above – remember, we’re not talking about **fraud** here. E.g., whether the voting machines were rigged to give a false result would be a different discussion. We’re talking about things that were done by public officials under the color of law – but which might not have been strictly legal, and which might be harder to get away with a second (or third) time if the VRA were renewed. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/20 "2006-06-23T23:00:12Z")
BTW – does anyone recall why the Reagan Admin opposed renewing the VRA? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868.md?page=2)