# Pubs delay renewal of Voting Rights Act **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2006, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868 "2006-06-23T14:50:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/21 "2006-06-23T23:54:52Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Regarding the above – remember, we’re not talking about **fraud** here. E.g., whether the voting machines were rigged to give a false result would be a different discussion. We’re talking about things that were done by public officials under the color of law – but which might not have been strictly legal, and which might be harder to get away with a second (or third) time if the VRA were renewed. [/QUOTE] Why do you think that the renewal of the Voting Rights Act will do anything to deter what you consider to be the voting abuses of 2000 and 2004, considering they occurred when the Voting Rights Act was active? And Reagan didn’t oppose renewing the VRA. In fact, he endorsed it. He had, however, when he was running for president, said that Section 5 was"humiliating to the South", and opposed amending the Act. Section 2 had said that in order for a law to be illegal under the VRA, the plantiff had to show a discriminatory intent…in other words, that the state law had been passed to discriminate. The amendments passed in 1982 changed the standard of Section 2 to add an effects test…so that a voting law would be illegal if plantiffs could show that it had the effect of discriminating. They no longer had to show that was the intent of the law. The effects test had already existed in Section 5, but the amendments extended it to Section 2 as well. That’s what the Reagan administration opposed. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2006, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/22 "2006-06-24T00:01:00Z")
Oh, I forgot. The Reagan administration also supported a “buyout” provision in section 5, which would let an area subject to section 5, if they could show that they hadn’t discriminated in voting and took efforts against voting discrimination, to apply to be removed from the provisions of section 5. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2006, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/23 "2006-06-24T15:29:21Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Why do you think that the renewal of the Voting Rights Act will do anything to deter what you consider to be the voting abuses of 2000 and 2004, considering they occurred when the Voting Rights Act was active? [/QUOTE] I admit I’m not optimistic, but at least the VRA provides for federal oversight of the process and there’s **some** transparency to it – it’s a tool Dem activists just might be able to use to prevent further voting-roll purges, or disproportionate spoilage of ballots from black precincts (see second link in post #9). If it expires before 2008, we won’t even have that. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2006, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/24 "2006-06-25T05:00:58Z")
Well, no, the only thing that will expire in 2008 is section 5, and none of the states that are subject to section 5 restrictions (Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, Texas, and Virginia, as well as parts of Florida, New York, California, North Carolina, and South Dakota) are really in play presidentially. I mean, I guess those states could racially discriminate to influence congressional elections, but a lawsuit could still be brought under section 2. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2006, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/25 "2006-06-25T14:41:12Z")
Read the Bradbloig . he has been covering the election fraud for years. The fraud starts by Harris and Blackwell removing voters from the voter rolls. They start it by claiming they are simply removing convicted felons from th erolls, but they removed them ,then any one with a similar name. Then started cleaning out voters in predominantly black or democratic areas. There was a meeting in which the manufacturer of the voting machines (Diebolt) spoke to his workers and said our mission is to elect George Bush. The machines have no paper trail and studies have shown they are easily tamperered with. Programmers have come out from Diebolt and told about them. The amount of machines were controlled. Black or Democratic areas had too few machines and 6 hr waiting periods. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2006, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/26 "2006-06-25T16:14:36Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [Another article.](http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/index.html#1463) [Parts of the Act are up for renewal in 2007, so I guess there’s no hurry.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act#Periodic_renewal) But you still have to wonder. I recall the Reagan Administration opposed renewing the VRA in 1982, but I forget what reasons they gave. [/QUOTE] I guess “we pander to racists whenever we can” would be just too honest. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/27 "2006-06-26T13:18:25Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Well, no, the only thing that will expire in 2008 is section 5, and none of the states that are subject to section 5 restrictions (Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, Texas, and Virginia, as well as parts of Florida, New York, California, North Carolina, and South Dakota) are really in play presidentially. [/QUOTE] Florida is **always** in play presidentially. It’s a “purple” state. With a whopping complement of electoral votes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/28 "2006-06-26T13:20:28Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] Read the Bradbloig . he has been covering the election fraud for years. The fraud starts by Harris and Blackwell removing voters from the voter rolls. They start it by claiming they are simply removing convicted felons from th erolls, but they removed them ,then any one with a similar name. Then started cleaning out voters in predominantly black or democratic areas. There was a meeting in which the manufacturer of the voting machines (Diebolt) spoke to his workers and said our mission is to elect George Bush. The machines have no paper trail and studies have shown they are easily tamperered with. Programmers have come out from Diebolt and told about them. The amount of machines were controlled. Black or Democratic areas had too few machines and 6 hr waiting periods. [/QUOTE] Let’s not confuse or conflate things. The purge of the voter rolls is one issue, and the reliability of the Diebold machines quite another. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/29 "2006-06-26T14:35:07Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Florida is **always** in play presidentially. It’s a “purple” state. With a whopping complement of electoral votes. [/QUOTE] Sure, but the only counties in Florida subject to Section 5 are Collier, Hardee, Hendry, and Hillsborough, and of those counties, only Hendry and Hissborough have large black populations (14.75 and 14.96% respectively). The rest of the state isn’t under Section 5. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/30 "2006-06-26T15:32:17Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Not that I accept your premise, though, that “George Bush’s Justice Department” wouldn’t prosecute crimes if it had credible evidence presented to it. [/QUOTE] I do not know exactly what cases were brought or their result but… > [@](#): > > The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights conducted an extensive public investigation of allegations of voting irregularities during the 2000 presidential election in Florida. The investigation, utilizing the Commission’s subpoena power, included three days of hearings, more than 30 hours of testimony, 100 witnesses, and a systematic review of more than 118,000 pages of pertinent documents.[2] > > Perhaps the most dramatic undercount in Florida’s election was the uncast ballots of countless eligible voters who were turned away at the polls or wrongfully purged from voter registration rolls. > > While statistical data, reinforced by credible anecdotal evidence, point to widespread disenfranchisement and denial of voting rights, it is impossible to determine the extent of the disenfranchisement or to provide an adequate remedy to the persons whose voices were silenced in this historic election by a pattern and practice of injustice, ineptitude, and inefficiency. > > Despite the closeness of the election, it was widespread voter disenfranchisement, not the dead-heat contest, that was the extraordinary feature in the Florida election. The disenfranchisement was not isolated or episodic. And state officials failed to fulfill their duties in a manner that would prevent this disenfranchisement. > > SOURCE: [Reports | U.S. Commission on Civil Rights](http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/pubsndx.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/31 "2006-06-26T15:39:31Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Let’s not confuse or conflate things. The purge of the voter rolls is one issue, and the reliability of the Diebold machines quite another. [/QUOTE] Yes, they are two methods the Republicans used to steal the 2000 and 2004 elections. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/32 "2006-06-26T15:46:07Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Not that I accept your premise, though, that “George Bush’s Justice Department” wouldn’t prosecute crimes if it had credible evidence presented to it. [/QUOTE] Forgot to add in the 2004 election: > [@](#): > > Status Report of the House Judiciary Committee Democratic Staff > > ``` > Wednesday 05 January 2005 > > Executive Summary > > Representative John Conyers, Jr., the Ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, asked the Democratic staff to conduct an investigation into irregularities reported in the Ohio presidential election and to prepare a Status Report concerning the same prior to the Joint Meeting of Congress scheduled for January 6, 2005, to receive and consider the votes of the electoral college for president. The following Report includes a brief chronology of the events; summarizes the relevant background law; provides detailed findings (including factual findings and legal analysis); and describes various recommendations for acting on this Report going forward. > > We have found numerous, serious election irregularities in the Ohio presidential election, which resulted in a significant disenfranchisement of voters. Cumulatively, these irregularities, which affected hundreds of thousand of votes and voters in Ohio, raise grave doubts regarding whether it can be said the Ohio electors selected on December 13, 2004, were chosen in a manner that conforms to Ohio law, let alone federal requirements and constitutional standards. > > ``` > > SOURCE: [http://www.truthout.org/docs\_05/010605Y.shtml](http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/010605Y.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/33 "2006-06-27T13:50:24Z")
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] I do not know exactly what cases were brought or their result but… [/QUOTE] I hate to keep hammering away at this\*, but if we had [an independent, separately elected fourth branch of government to run the elections and to police the other three,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=264462) this kind of partisan misfeasance and selective enforcement might be avoided. \*Lie. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/34 "2006-06-27T23:26:25Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Sure, but the only counties in Florida subject to Section 5 are Collier, Hardee, Hendry, and Hillsborough, and of those counties, only Hendry and Hissborough have large black populations (14.75 and 14.96% respectively). The rest of the state isn’t under Section 5. [/QUOTE] So what? The winner of Florida’s popular vote contest gets _all_ of Florida’s electoral votes. And the difference there in 2000 was five or six hundred votes. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868/35 "2006-06-28T00:23:06Z")
Yes, but first, the 2000 Florida vote was a historical anomaly. Secondly, Section 5 didn’t prevent any malfeasance from happening in 2000, partly because it didn’t apply statewide, and partly because the alledged malfeasance wasn’t structural, but individual…that’s to seay, for example, that, in itself, removing those not eligible to vote from the voting roles (like convicted felons, for example), is generally allowed under Section 5. What the Republicans are accused of doing, though, is abusing that process, by, instead of doing what they were allowed to do, and actually removing those not eligible to vote, they removed eligible voters because of their race. The proper remedy for that is a lawsuit, provided for in section 2 of the Act. This remedy would still exist even if Section 5 expires. Further, since the agency authorized to preclear under Section 5 is the Justice Department, if the real purpose of removing the preclearance requirement is to disenfranchise black Democratic voters in key areas, it would be just as easy for Congress to vote to renew the section, and then have the Attorney General rubberstamp all the planned changes in swing areas. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pubs-delay-renewal-of-voting-rights-act/361868.md?page=1)