# Puerto Rico statehood -- how would it work? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 13, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500 "2017-05-13T01:38:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/41 "2017-06-13T05:57:36Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Not necessarily. > > I seem to recall (from long-ago history classes) that when the United States was formed, it explicitly declined to take on the debts of the various state governments as a Federal obligation. They either stayed debts owed by the individual state governments, or were disclaimed entirely. That’s the exact opposite of what happened. The Assumption Act of 1790 was passed to allow the federal government to assume the outstanding debts of the thirteen states incurred during the revolutionary war, and use its newfangled powers of taxation to pay them. Of course, the federal government back then had a strong motivation to do this. They have no particular motivation to bail Puerto Rico out of its massive hole. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/42 "2017-06-13T07:43:38Z")
Think he is mixing up Confederate debts, which the USG is explicitly forbidden to honor per Sec 4 of Amendment XIV. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/43 "2017-06-13T10:44:15Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > 1. Not asked either but as to Seats: Before 1912, the House of Representatives simply expanded by an estimate of the required number of seats with each state admission and that new total was then reapportioned after the next census. Then the membership was locked at 435 and when Alaska and Hawaii were admitted in 1959, the House was\* provisionally\* expanded to 438 until the 1962 reapportionment could be done to revert to 435. If admission of Puerto Rico does not take place to coincide exactly with a Census it would involve 4 or 5 provisional seats until next reapportionment, or conceivably and as a way to garner votes, a permanent expansion of the total to 439-441 **so no other state loses seats**. See Alabama Paradox ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/44 "2017-06-13T10:48:12Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > I seem to recall (from long-ago history classes) that when the United States was formed, it explicitly declined to take on the debts of the various state governments as a Federal obligation. They either stayed debts owed by the individual state governments, or were disclaimed entirely. > > I don’t think it likely to be done that way now, since much of PR’s debt is owed to various US taxpayers & corporations. And Congress doesn’t want to give any precedents that might give states like Illinois or Kansas. BUT IIRC Texas voted to be annexed primarily to have the Federal government pay off its debt though that may have been a special deal. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/45 "2017-06-13T11:30:01Z")
Side issue: turnout for the statehood vote was pitiful! Not even 25% on a rather important issue. Why so few Puerto Rican voting? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/46 "2017-06-13T12:50:02Z")
As mentioned upthread, some political parties deliberately boycotted the referendum. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/47 "2017-06-13T13:04:04Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Of course, the federal government back then had a strong motivation to do this. They have no particular motivation to bail Puerto Rico out of its massive hole. Um, a particular reason is to keep it part of the USA… they start thinking of leaving if they are totally bankrupt… Or if it becomes totally incapable of looking after its people, it becomes a humanitarian crisis,and then UN can vote on it, and take it from the USA and run it under the UN’s wing and give it to Spain or something. That would look bad. They won’t bail out states/territories/cities when they haven’t felt any pain, but they won’t let the pain kill it. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/48 "2017-06-13T13:19:26Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > UN can vote on it, and take it from the USA and run it under the UN’s wing and give it to Spain or something. You actually believe this is a realistic possibility? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/49 "2017-06-13T13:22:01Z")
It’s not realistic… but there might be enough Americans who think it is to get a statehood bill pushed through to prevent it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/50 "2017-06-13T15:09:47Z")
A) Refer again to elections thread for more discussion about turnout and boycott B) Speculation on the nature of the Congress’ receptiveness to statehood is just that, political speculation. For all we know it may all end up in them acting out of spite after a Trump twitterstorm. > [@Isilder](#): > > Or if it becomes totally incapable of looking after its people, it becomes a humanitarian crisis,and then UN can vote on it, and take it from the USA and run it under the UN’s wing and give it to Spain or something. That would look bad. Seeing as this thread is in GQ I call _ **CITE?** _ US sovereignty over PR was established per a recognized treaty since 1899 and accepted by the voters back in 1950 when ratifying the “commonwealth.” The US policy position is the PR status is a domestic matter. PR is not a UN trusteeship, hell, it is not even in the UN list of nonselfgoverning jurisdictions since back in 1953 the US got them to agree the “commonwealth” was an acceptable form of home rule. (The UN’s “anti imperialist” bloc had been trying to have the GA take that back since the 70s, but it has gotten nowhere) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/51 "2017-06-13T15:17:36Z")
However, the Record from the last three Congresses and the last two White Houses is that the US position is of NO fiscal bailout for PR either directly by the US taxpayer or by the Fed. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/52 "2017-06-13T15:31:04Z")
I know its GQ, but since per the news PR is sending a “Congressional delegation” to DC, demanding to be seated maybe a Trump Twitter storm is what is needed here. Tell him that he will be the first President since Ike to add a star to the flag. Point is that you will need convincing at thats a good an idea as any. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/53 "2017-06-13T16:05:52Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I know its GQ, but since per the news PR is sending a “Congressional delegation” to DC, demanding to be seated maybe a Trump Twitter storm is what is needed here. Tell him that he will be the first President since Ike to add a star to the flag. > > Point is that you will need convincing at thats a good an idea as any. Yep, the Governor is going for a “Tennessee Plan” gambit as a follow-up As of yesterday, the WH reaction per Spicer was “Now that the people have spoken in Puerto Rico, this is something Congress has to address.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/54 "2017-06-13T16:05:59Z")
As I understand it, Puerto Rico has had a Congressional delegation for ages. But, like the delegations from other non-states, they can’t vote, just argue. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/55 "2017-06-13T19:46:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > As I understand it, Puerto Rico has had a Congressional delegation for ages. But, like the delegations from other non-states, they can’t vote, just argue. As a territory it gets one single nonvoting House member, regardless of population (called the “Resident Commissioner”, only Member of Congress with a 4 year term). What the “Tennessee Plan” (named after the first of a half dozen or so states who tried that move) involves in a state’s admission process is reporting that you have already ratified a constitution and unilaterally assembling a delegation of “shadow” Senators and Reps equivalent to what would be your apportionment if admitted (in this case, 2 + 5), to be your officially sanctioned lobbying team and negotiate final terms. The District of Columbia has been posting a shadow delegation since the early 1990s in their effort so it’s not exactly a fast-tracker. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/56 "2017-06-13T20:06:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The other issue is, what if Puerto Rico becoming a state encourages a lot of Anglo migration and makes Puerto Rico unrecognizable? That’s tended to happen to states, and Puerto Rico is actually closer to the US mainland than a couple of states whose essential character was changed a great deal by migration. There’s nothing stopping people from moving there now. You can have never left Nebraska in your life, and move to PR with just a plane ticket and no passport. I don’t think losing your Presidential vote is a _huge_ concern for many people. Improving the economy there might encourage (semi)permanent migration, but you don’t need statehood for that, although it probably helps! > [@davida03801](#): > > Congress and Trump should make a deal with Puerto Rico. The US will assume all the debt and Puerto Rico gets its independence. Why? Full independence is a minority opinion - it got 1.5% of the last vote, the people who stayed home likely supported status quo instead. It got 5.5% in 2012, with 95% voting for something else. Nobody mentioned this, but I’ve seen it come up in the past: adding an extra star to the flag and keeping it nice and pretty is trivial. [Here’s one example](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_flag_51_stars.svg), others have created mockups for 52, 53, 54, etc. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/57 "2017-06-13T20:48:57Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Nobody mentioned this, but I’ve seen it come up in the past: adding an extra star to the flag and keeping it nice and pretty is trivial. [Here’s one example](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_flag_51_stars.svg), others have created mockups for 52, 53, 54, etc. Found a more complete link: [List of flags of the United States - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_flags_of_the_United_States#Possible_future_designs) Note the circular one that the PR pro-statehood party proposed. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/58 "2017-06-13T21:10:51Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Found a more complete link: [List of flags of the United States - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_flags_of_the_United_States#Possible_future_designs) > > Note the circular one that the PR pro-statehood party proposed. That was a mere onetime publicity stunt. What’s used at their rallies is the more the conventional one already on file at the National Archive (first from left). ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/59 "2017-06-13T22:39:35Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > Um, a particular reason is to keep it part of the USA… they start thinking of leaving if they are totally bankrupt… Puerto Rico will not leave. The independence faction has been a tiny minority (less than 5%) for decades. > [@](#): > > Or if it becomes totally incapable of looking after its people, it becomes a humanitarian crisis,and then UN can vote on it, and take it from the USA and run it under the UN’s wing and give it to Spain or something The UN and what army? You’re also aware that the US has a permanent seat on the Security Council and can veto anything, right? If Puerto Rico truly does become a humanitarian crisis, it is likely that Congress will act to provide some relief, but there’s lots of ways to do that which don’t involve assuming PR’s debt. ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500/60 "2017-06-13T22:47:06Z")
For White House assistance in statehood, they need to better stroke the EGO of the current resident. Easiest to do with the flag design. Double width blue stripe across the top with a row of 13 & a row of 12 stars. Below that the 13 red and white stripes. Bisect them with a blue bar running down the center. Put two stars in each horizontal row. From 100 yards it would appear to be a giant blue “T” superimposed on the Red and white. Definite ego boost. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puerto-rico-statehood-how-would-it-work/786500.md?page=4)