# Pulitzer Prize in Music: What should be eligible?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539>\
**Category:** Cafe Society\
**Created:** [April 16, 2018, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539 "2018-04-16T22:17:45Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 3

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**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/41 "2018-04-17T22:32:34Z")

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I can see if people want to argue “There is no tradition of music composition being a category”. I’d disagree, but it’s an argument.

And I can see “We don’t want to award a music composition prize, we don’t think it’s a good idea anymore”. Fine, award nothing, or create a new prize.

What I can’t see at all is “Let’s award this prize to something that is great and deserves some kind of prize, but that definitely belongs in a different and equally-well-defined category that there are already prizes for, and definitely doesn’t belong in the category our prize is for”.

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**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/42 "2018-04-17T22:40:59Z")

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> [@DavidwithanR](#):
>
> I can see if people want to argue “There is no tradition of music composition being a category”. I’d disagree, but it’s an argument.  
> ".

I guess my question is, why does what Kendrick Lamar is doing not count as music composition? Is it because he’s not making music? Ok, I’m ready to argue that point.

Is it because what he’s doing doesn’t fit your criteria for composition? In that case I don’t understand the difference between creator of music and writer of music and composer of music. Kendrick is clearly the artist in charge of all aspects of his music, even if it is a somewhat collaborative process. But Jazz being allowed to win opens the door to that sort of collaboration. I’m going to need you to explain better. I genuinely don’t understand.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\
**Post date:** [April 18, 2018, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/43 "2018-04-18T00:45:48Z")

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> [@NAF1138](#):
>
> I guess my question is, why does what Kendrick Lamar is doing not count as music composition? Is it because he’s not making music? Ok, I’m ready to argue that point.
> 
> Is it because what he’s doing doesn’t fit your criteria for composition? In that case I don’t understand the difference between creator of music and writer of music and composer of music. Kendrick is clearly the artist in charge of all aspects of his music, even if it is a somewhat collaborative process. But Jazz being allowed to win opens the door to that sort of collaboration. I’m going to need you to explain better. I genuinely don’t understand.

Every genre has a tradition. To be part of a particular tradition’s present and future, you have to make its past part of your own past, by studying it and absorbing it, somehow. There’s no need for anyone to be defensive about this; every musician who has trained in music is automatically part of whatever tradition they’ve trained in. It’s not magic, and it’s not elitist except in the way that a runner who trains is elite compared to one who doesn’t. This is exactly how rappers work, all knowing each other’s work, all feeding off of each other’s work, making playful and not-so-playful jabs at each other, and so on. If you’re a rapper who doesn’t know Tupac’s work, you’re seriously lacking. Even if you don’t like his work, you still know it, it’s part of your tradition.

What about the rapper who doesn’t really know Aaron Copland’s work? Is he less of a rapper because of it? No. Is he outside the tradition of American music composition because of it? Yes. It’s not discriminatory to say so, any more than to say that if I’m going to call myself a rapper then I better know Kendrick’s work and Tupac’s and so on. (There’s more to it of course, but that’s part of it, just as knowing the American music composition tradition is necessary to be part of it.)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\
**Post date:** [April 18, 2018, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/44 "2018-04-18T01:30:47Z")

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So if it’s not “concert music” (don’t like the term but it’s better than classical) it does not count? So the Jazz compositions should not have happened either?

Eta: don’t read any of this as defensive. I promise I’m not attacking you either. Just trying to understand your viewpoint.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\
**Post date:** [April 18, 2018, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/45 "2018-04-18T02:38:55Z")

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> [@DavidwithanR](#):
>
> I’d argue that the prize was created specifically for the academic Eurocentric box, that it was intended to remain that way, and that this particular case of “out of the box” is simply a polite way of describing “lost the plot”. There are lots of awards that are genre-specific. Should Kendrick Lamar win the World Series for this album too? He’s more popular than the Chicago Cubs.

There are lots of awards that are genre specific, but the Pulitzer is not one of them. The award is for “a distinguished musical composition by an American that has had its first performance or recording in the United States during the year.” There’s no mention of genre there - and no, “American music composition” is not a genre. If it’s supposed to be only for one or two genres, it should specify that somewhere. If it’s going to present itself as representative of American music as a whole, it should consider the entire field.

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**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\
**Post date:** [April 18, 2018, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/46 "2018-04-18T02:41:06Z")

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> [@DavidwithanR](#):
>
> Every genre has a tradition. To be part of a particular tradition’s present and future, you have to make its past part of your own past, by studying it and absorbing it, somehow. There’s no need for anyone to be defensive about this; every musician who has trained in music is automatically part of whatever tradition they’ve trained in. It’s not magic, and it’s not elitist except in the way that a runner who trains is elite compared to one who doesn’t. This is exactly how rappers work, all knowing each other’s work, all feeding off of each other’s work, making playful and not-so-playful jabs at each other, and so on. If you’re a rapper who doesn’t know Tupac’s work, you’re seriously lacking. Even if you don’t like his work, you still know it, it’s part of your tradition.
> 
> What about the rapper who doesn’t really know Aaron Copland’s work? Is he less of a rapper because of it? No. Is he outside the tradition of American music composition because of it? Yes. It’s not discriminatory to say so, any more than to say that if I’m going to call myself a rapper then I better know Kendrick’s work and Tupac’s and so on. (There’s more to it of course, but that’s part of it, just as knowing the American music composition tradition is necessary to be part of it.)

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. And your comparisons to the World Series & Tony Awards are idiotic and show that you have no clue what you’re saying.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\
**Post date:** [April 18, 2018, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/47 "2018-04-18T03:32:50Z")

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> [@Miller](#):
>
> There are lots of awards that are genre specific, but the Pulitzer is not one of them. The award is for “a distinguished musical composition by an American that has had its first performance or recording in the United States during the year.” There’s no mention of genre there - and no, “American music composition” is not a genre. If it’s supposed to be only for one or two genres, it should specify that somewhere. If it’s going to present itself as representative of American music as a whole, it should consider the entire field.

Has the Pulitzer Price for Fiction ever been awarded to a genre title? Has the Pulitzer Prize for General Nonfiction ever gone to a textbook? Has the Pulitzer Prize for Poetry ever gone to a book of lyrics? (BYW, the Poetry Prize is the only one which specifies it must be a “volume.” Does that mean the Prize for Fiction or History can go to an ebook but the Poetry Prize cannot?)

For 75 years, the Pulitzer Prize in Music meant classical music, with two odd exceptions. As I asked above, does anybody on the the planet think this actually and specifically represented the single best work of American music of the year? Does anybody think this was merely coincidence?

People know what the Pulitzers mean by their categories. If the Music Prize this year went to another classical composition would you be here complaining that the Prize isn’t genre specific? Assuming you knew of their existence before this thread, you would have been nodding along with everybody else because that for 75 years the Prize was designed for classical, given to classical, and was the way classical got recognized in our society.

Now maybe the world shouldn’t work that way. Maybe the Pulitzers are going to change to meet the times. Maybe I’ll grow wings and fly. But none of it will happen because the Pulitzer committees suddenly wake up tomorrow and exclaim, “Oh noes, we’ve been ignoring the lack of specificity in our descriptions for longer than any of us have been alive!”

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**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\
**Post date:** [April 18, 2018, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/48 "2018-04-18T04:04:51Z")

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Aside from the Pulitzer, is there any other big prize given for a “best _classical_ composition”?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\
**Post date:** [April 18, 2018, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/49 "2018-04-18T07:42:33Z")

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> [@NAF1138](#):
>
> Heavily snipped and with tons of respect intended.
> 
> * * *
> 
> Hip hop is a 50 year old genre. It’s not just a new genre anymore. At its best it’s picking up where both beat poetry and jazz left off (and while there is great jazz being made still, let’s not pretend it still is what it was 50 years ago) . It’s not always at its best, but that is true of all art forms.
> 
> This is simply incorrect due to lack of exposure. That’s not your fault, if you haven’t heard much of his music you would not know. If you aren’t familiar with hip hop you might not be able to “hear” it anyway.
> 
> This is undeniable IMO. Most of what “the kids” are listening to these days bores me to tears. But not Kendrick. Doesn’t apply.
> 
> This is, disappointing. It also speaks of ignorance of the genre, but there is a lot of depth not just lyrically but sonically as well. You get improvisation, just that most of it is lyrical. The second track on DAMN the entire end of the song was done “freestyle” or unwritten. Kendrick just went in the studio and started rapping until he was out of things to say. This is a skill as impressive to me as any jazz improvisation because of how intricate the rhyme and rhythms need to be. You get lots of musical variety with the “beats” as well. Hip hop beats have changed pop music across genre as well. Good producers mix beats in a way that is also very similar to jazz. They take snippets and phrases of extant material as well as original material and interpolation of popular works and combine and rearrange them to make something unique.
> 
> You also get the most sonic innovation in hip hop of any current genre. They are pushing what you can do with audio recording in a way no one else cares about until a break through happens.
> 
> Add to that the storytelling aspect that you don’t get anywhere else outside of folk music. I appreciate that you are acknowledging the virtuosity necessary but I feel like you haven’t really given the genre more than a surface level look based on your other comments. You should look deeper.

In the grand scheme of things, 50 years isn’t much.

You’re right that I need to dig deeper to get a better understanding of the genre. I’m not completely ignorant of it, though.

I was , for instance, absolutely aware of the improvisational aspect of hip hop. In that respect, it’s something that I should have commented on indeed, and which definitely can prove a fertile ground for development and complexity. However, that’s not exactly the feeling I got from the lyrics. I admit that I missed a lot of it, but what I did get wasn’t exactly deep. It could however change with time. But as far as beats are concerned, I’m almost certain that, while they can be extremely complex and interesting, they have less potential for development and subtlety than harmonies or melodies.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\
**Post date:** [April 18, 2018, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/50 "2018-04-18T11:09:47Z")

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Relevant link to interviews with the other two finalists who didn’t win and their thoughts.

> **[How Two Classical Composers Feel About Losing the Pulitzer to Kendrick Lamar](https://slate.com/culture/2018/04/pulitzer-finalists-michael-gilbertson-and-ted-hearne-on-kendrick-lamars-win.html)**
>
> Some classical fans are furious that the rapper won. The guys he beat are thrilled.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\
**Post date:** [April 18, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/51 "2018-04-18T13:33:46Z")

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As an interesting aside, [here is the reaction of the people who lost out on the Pulitzer to Lamar](https://slate.com/culture/2018/04/pulitzer-finalists-michael-gilbertson-and-ted-hearne-on-kendrick-lamars-win.html).

If anyone had reason to take umbrage at the choice, they would (a Pulitzer would be a big boost to their careers), they would. Yet they both are delighted with the choice.

As an aside, people tend to think of William Randolph Hearst as the epitome of the bad excesses of yellow journalism. But Joseph Pulitzer was no different and maybe even more sensationalist. Yet Pulitzer doesn’t have the negative reputation as Hearts.\* I’m certain that was because he created the Prize, which makes people overlook his reputation as a newspaper publisher.

\*At least, not until _Newsies_.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\
**Post date:** [April 18, 2018, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/52 "2018-04-18T14:20:28Z")

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> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#):
>
> Aside from the Pulitzer, is there any other big prize given for a “best _classical_ composition”?

Since nobody else has responded to this yet, I did some googling, and apparently the answer is “yes” (e.g. the [Grawemeyer Award](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grawemeyer_Award_(Music_Composition)), the [The American Prize in Composition](http://www.theamericanprize.org/composition.html), and for Canada, the [Juno Award for Classical Composition of the Year](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juno_Award_for_Classical_Composition_of_the_Year)), though maybe none of them are as high-profile as the Pulitzer.

If the answer had been “no,” I would have said I want the Pulitzer to go to a classical composition, since there should be _some_ prize specifically for such works, and there are other high-profile awards that someone like Kendrick Lamar could win (e.g. Grammys).

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\
**Post date:** [April 18, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/53 "2018-04-18T17:34:07Z")

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There was the very coveted [Prix de Rome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prix_de_Rome) for French composers but it was abolished after the May 68 unrest.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\
**Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/54 "2018-04-19T02:22:29Z")

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> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> As I asked above, does anybody on the the planet think this actually and specifically represented the single best work of American music of the year?

It was one of the most acclaimed albums of the year. That puts it in the discussion for best single work of American music.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\
**Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/55 "2018-04-19T03:31:12Z")

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> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> For 75 years, the Pulitzer Prize in Music meant classical music, with two odd exceptions. As I asked above, does anybody on the the planet think this actually and specifically represented the single best work of American music of the year? Does anybody think this was merely coincidence?

[The Village Voice’s Pazz and Jop survey did.](https://www.villagevoice.com/2018/01/22/pazz-jop-the-top-albums-and-singles-of-2017/)  
[As did Pitchfork](https://pitchfork.com/features/lists-and-guides/the-50-best-albums-of-2017/?page=5), and most every high profile music reviewer put it their top albums category.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\
**Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/56 "2018-04-19T05:27:30Z")

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> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> For 75 years, the Pulitzer Prize in Music meant classical music, with two odd exceptions. As I asked above, does anybody on the the planet think this actually and specifically represented the single best work of American music of the year? Does anybody think this was merely coincidence?

> [@Yookeroo](#):
>
> It was one of the most acclaimed albums of the year. That puts it in the discussion for best single work of American music.

> [@installLSC](#):
>
> [The Village Voice’s Pazz and Jop survey did.](https://www.villagevoice.com/2018/01/22/pazz-jop-the-top-albums-and-singles-of-2017/)  
> [As did Pitchfork](https://pitchfork.com/features/lists-and-guides/the-50-best-albums-of-2017/?page=5), and most every high profile music reviewer put it their top albums category.

I think you guys are misunderstanding **Exapno** ’s question. IIUC, he’s asking if anybody thinks that the classical works that won the Pulitzer in previous years were the single best work of American music in their year—not if anybody thinks that about _DAMN_.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\
**Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/57 "2018-04-19T12:44:30Z")

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> [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](#):
>
> But as far as beats are concerned, I’m almost certain that, while they can be extremely complex and interesting, they have less potential for development and subtlety than harmonies or melodies.

Old-school hip-hop DJing is effectively dead, as far as mainstream hip-hop goes. People still do it, but you will never hear it on the radio, not anymore. The advent of samplers and sequencers made the on-stage DJ more of a hype man or at worst, a prop, rather than the integral heart of the music itself. Nobody spins records in the studio anymore, beats are all now programmed up by a “producer” who may not have ever even touched a turntable before.

You should check out the works of Terminator X or DJ Jazzy Jeff from the 80s. The depth and complexity of the music they created out of just snippets of other tracks is legitimately amazing.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\
**Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/58 "2018-04-19T12:51:27Z")

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> [@DCnDC](#):
>
> Old-school hip-hop DJing is effectively dead, as far as mainstream hip-hop goes. People still do it, but you will never hear it on the radio, not anymore. The advent of samplers and sequencers made the on-stage DJ more of a hype man or at worst, a prop, rather than the integral heart of the music itself. Nobody spins records in the studio anymore, beats are all now programmed up by a “producer” who may not have ever even touched a turntable before.
> 
> You should check out the works of Terminator X or DJ Jazzy Jeff from the 80s. The depth and complexity of the music they created out of just snippets of other tracks is legitimately amazing.

That’s not fair. DJ Shadow just released an album last year and it was a huge hit. Madlib still cuts tracks. While ultimately they employ more than just two turntables they both have significant turntable roots. There are lots of producers who are making genuine music too. To keep it Kendrick, his albums are more than beats. Boom Bap hip hop is out of fashion (not dead) but there is still a lot of musical stuff going on.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\
**Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/59 "2018-04-19T13:25:28Z")

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> [@NAF1138](#):
>
> That’s not fair. DJ Shadow just released an album last year and it was a huge hit. Madlib still cuts tracks. While ultimately they employ more than just two turntables they both have significant turntable roots.

Right. Because the DJ and the MC have evolved into related but separate arts. I know my previous post does not really express this, but I was really just lamenting that separation. DJs and MCs were once an integral team, but today the relationship is more like mercenaries than teammates.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\
**Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulitzer-prize-in-music-what-should-be-eligible/812539/60 "2018-04-19T13:42:05Z")

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> [@DCnDC](#):
>
> Old-school hip-hop DJing is effectively dead, as far as mainstream hip-hop goes. People still do it, but you will never hear it on the radio, not anymore. The advent of samplers and sequencers made the on-stage DJ more of a hype man or at worst, a prop, rather than the integral heart of the music itself. Nobody spins records in the studio anymore, beats are all now programmed up by a “producer” who may not have ever even touched a turntable before.
> 
> You should check out the works of Terminator X or DJ Jazzy Jeff from the 80s. The depth and complexity of the music they created out of just snippets of other tracks is legitimately amazing.

\*\*  
Terminator X\*\* happens to be one of the few DJs whose work I’m familiar with 🙂 .

My brother listened to **Public Enemy** ’s _Fear of a Black Planet_ a lot in the early 90s, also their previous two albums, I think. I can’t say I loved this music but I wasn’t hostile either. It certainly didn’t sound like anything else I knew, and it was undeniably cleverly done, which made it worth listening to.

About the beats, and music in general, being all done on a computer : this is exactly what I deplore. I’ve spent most of my life playing various instruments and, while I recognize that computers can do things or create textures that are out of reach of even the most gifted musicians, I see this lack of physical contact, of direct interaction with sound production as a major impoverishment. A lot of flash, very little substance.

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