# Pulling into people's driveways to make a k-turn **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 5, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070 "2015-08-05T15:29:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070/61 "2015-08-06T17:50:30Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I think a lot of disagreement here might be because we all have different visions of what a driveway is. > > If you decided to pull into this driveway: > > [Typical Mesa AZ driveway (not mine)](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mesa,+AZ/@33.424362,-111.694476,3a,75y,229.93h,90.52t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1siclY7696RhGwOvZaVrFW2Q!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DiclY7696RhGwOvZaVrFW2Q%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D100%26h%3D80%26yaw%3D208.13036%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x872ba7c2c0c592c1:0xd10fc215694e771b!6m1!1e1) > > I think most people would think you were rude, or up to something criminal. If you’re reading a map in one of these driveways, I’d hope even Shodan would think this was objectionable. Why not park in the street? Nope. you’re fine up the the end of the sidewalk, that portion likely doesnt even belong to the homeowner. After that, it depends on fact & circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070/62 "2015-08-06T20:48:06Z")
One time, I did this, and the driveway was much steeper (and gravel-ier) than I had expected. I lost traction trying to reverse direction and slid into a fence, knocking part of it down. No one was home, so I left a note on the front door with my number and braced myself for the call. A few hours later, the guy called, and I was surprised at what a good mood he was in. He told me that this was the fourth time someone had damaged his fence and the first time that person had left a note. I mailed him a check for a reasonable amount to cover the damages. And, yeah, I have no problem doing it, or if someone else did it. As long as they pay up when they do a shit job of it. ---
**Author:** ![Whatever4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@Whatever4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whatever4)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070/63 "2015-08-07T04:38:23Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Am I the only one who has never heard the term “k-turn”? It’s always been a “three-point turn” to me. Me, too. Perhaps it’s gone the way of cursive, parallel parking, and “Operator, number pulleeze.” ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070/64 "2015-08-07T06:56:16Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > If you turn into a concrete driveway, you can leave a black, rubber marks if you turn the steering wheel when the car is stopped. I can understand homeowners not wanting to have the end of their driveway marred by these marks. If possible, you should try to avoid turning the wheels too much to avoid messing up their driveway. Are you serious? You check your driveway for tire marks? What do you do if you find them, scrub them off? What’s your address? I want to drive on your driveway and twist the shit out of my steering wheel. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070/65 "2015-08-07T10:26:38Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Are you serious? You check your driveway for tire marks? What do you do if you find them, scrub them off? > > What’s your address? I want to drive on your driveway and twist the shit out of my steering wheel. My gf’s aunt is like that. She has a concrete driveway and scrubs stained areas, down on her hands and knees. She is in her 80s. A few years ago she had a fit when the police stopped for some reason and the car left a small oil stain. She complained so long and hard that they sent a road crew over to work on the stain. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070/66 "2015-08-07T12:22:22Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Are you serious? You check your driveway for tire marks? What do you do if you find them, scrub them off? > > What’s your address? I want to drive on your driveway and twist the shit out of my steering wheel. I’m not saying I do that, but I know someone who, because of the street layout, has a driveway that people turn around in and he’s complained about the marks. And I agree with him that it does look bad to have an otherwise white driveway messed up with all these tire marks on the end. It’s something that I wouldn’t have thought of, but out of consideration for other people I try not to do that. If someone wants their driveway to look nice, who am I say otherwise? I don’t quite understand your desire to purposefully mess up someone else’s driveway just because. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070/67 "2015-08-07T13:41:19Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I’m not saying I do that, but I know someone who, because of the street layout, has a driveway that people turn around in and he’s complained about the marks. And I agree with him that it does look bad to have an otherwise white driveway messed up with all these tire marks on the end. > > It’s something that I wouldn’t have thought of, but out of consideration for other people I try not to do that. If someone wants their driveway to look nice, who am I say otherwise? I don’t quite understand your desire to purposefully mess up someone else’s driveway just because. Because it’s not messing up someone’s driveway. A nice driveway still looks nice with tire marks on it and a shitty driveway still looks shitty even without tire marks. We’re not even talking about pealing out, we’re talking about little smudges. People who obsess about shit like that WANT to obsess over it. So I’d be doing anyone a favor by smudging their driveway. Come put smudges on my driveway all you want; my property still looks awesome. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070/68 "2015-08-07T15:06:57Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I like to find a circular driveway so I don’t have to reverse 😃 My father had this type of driveway plus he lived near a high school. Because of the layout of road, students leaving the school had to travel east. Many would use his driveway to turn around. He put up signs that did nothing. He parked an old tractor on the driveway, they just drove across the grass. He finally just had to block one end with a gate. ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070/69 "2015-08-07T18:30:46Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Because it’s not messing up someone’s driveway. A nice driveway still looks nice with tire marks on it and a shitty driveway still looks shitty even without tire marks. We’re not even talking about pealing out, we’re talking about little smudges. > > People who obsess about shit like that WANT to obsess over it. So I’d be doing anyone a favor by smudging their driveway. Come put smudges on my driveway all you want; my property still looks awesome. It really doesn’t matter what you think. It’s not your property. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070/70 "2015-08-07T18:33:40Z")
> [@Macca26](#): > > It really doesn’t matter what you think. It’s not your property. And likely, part of _your_ driveway isn’t yours, either. From the street to the end of the sidewalk may well belong to the City/County. ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070/71 "2015-08-07T18:37:20Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And likely, part of _your_ driveway isn’t yours, either. From the street to the end of the sidewalk may well belong to the City/County. Yes, that’s fine. But if we’re talking about people actually pulling into a driveway past the property line and leaving marks, that’s defacing the property. It’s admissible only at the owner’s discretion. Where does the property line begin when there’s no sidewalk, I wonder? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070/72 "2015-08-07T19:00:26Z")
> [@Macca26](#): > > Where does the property line begin when there’s no sidewalk, I wonder? You can’t tell just from looking at it, and there’s no standard amount. I know in my case, even though there is a sidewalk, the foot or so past the sidewalk still belongs to the county. Used to be a bit more, but they widened the road a bit a few years ago and moved the sidewalk over. But still not up to the property line (I believe in NJ they may need to compensate owners if they put a sidewalk up against the property line - or something like that). The above is worth knowing for people who want to put up fences or shrubs, or install sprinklers. When they widened the road, they had to replace anything they damaged. But there were people whose fences and sprinklers had been placed on the part of their lawn that actually belonged to the county - all these got ripped up and the county’s position was that that was just going to be their tough luck. [I had been waiting to plant some shrubs until I saw what the county did with the road. After they finished, I made sure to find out where their property ended, so as to insure that nothing like this happened to me.] ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070/73 "2015-08-07T19:34:43Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Sorry, I’m just not seeing it as in any way complaint worthy. Or even mildly miff worthy, to be honest. > > I just can’t imagine getting the slightest bit put out by such an insignificant thing. And yet, there are homeowners who have signs saying please don’t do it. It’s only because of those signs in some places that I worry it might be rude in general. It would certainly be my last choice. ---
**Author:** ![CoastalMaineiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@CoastalMaineiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoastalMaineiac)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070/74 "2015-08-07T19:57:09Z")
If I’m going to turn around in someone’s driveway, I usually will reverse into the driveway, rather than reverse into traffic. Especially if there is anything that might obstruct my view of traffic on the way back out. A lot of rural roads here have speed limits of 45 to 55 miles per hour, may or may not have a shoulder, and are not laid out in “blocks.” The idea of doing a three-point turn in that situation seems like a good way to get hit. I don’t know that anyone “likes” it when people do it; I just figured it’s one of those allowances we all make for each other because we all have to do it once in a while. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070/75 "2015-08-07T20:22:12Z")
I used to have a good friend in Northeastern PA and sometimes if I went to spend the weekend with her Id take the Short Line bus. Sunday evening traffic on the way back to NYC could be brutal and if I took the bus at least I could read or sleep while stuck in traffic. So I’m taking the bus back to NYC on an autumn evening and the traffic was particularly horrendous. So the bus driver decides to take a shortcut. Now these are full sized buses and I think all 120 or so passengers assumed the bus driver knew what he was doing. So the dude takes his bus down what looked to be a service road running parallel to the highway. He’s clipping along done this road at a good pace and we are all glad to be moving. Then the road starts to narrow. And keeps getting narrower. And narrower. Now it’s one lane and there are tree branches brushing against the bus windows on both sides. Then the road dead-ends in front of someone’s house. And the owners are home, sitting on the porch,watching, amazed. It took the bus driver over 20 full minutes to get the monster bus turned around and headed back. If I hadn’t been so annoyed at the additional delay it would’ve been hysterical. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070/76 "2015-08-08T17:14:24Z")
I live on a rural state highway. I keep the grass mowed beyond the fence in front of the house clear out to the road, even though the last fifteen feet or so aren’t mine, but state property. People frequently turn around out there by driving off the road enough to do a U turn. Earlier this year was quite a rainy time. I came home one day to find great ruts out there. One set was from the vehicle that had sunk in to its axles, and the other from the tow vehicle. It would have been an amusing sight to see. They crossed my drive before they got stuck, but it was unharmed as it is well compacted from decades of use. ---
**Author:** ![CT\_Damsel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CT\_Damsel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CT_Damsel)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070/77 "2015-08-08T23:11:36Z")
People do this in my driveway frequently (every other day.) I live in the boonies and people seem to confuse my street with a street that is off of my street. I am considering installing a tire shark 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070/78 "2015-08-09T03:03:18Z")
Does anyone know the actual legality? I realize it’s no crime to pull into someone’s driveway, but is there any way to prevent it through signage? If I post, “No Trespassing,” and someone pulls in and turns around, would the cops take a call seriously? I realize a gate is a better solution, but I’m wondering if there is **ANY** way, short of a barrier, to prevent pull ins or to go after people who ignore a “Do Not Enter” sign. I’m not asking so I can do it; pull in my driveway all day long. It just seems to me that there would be absolutely no way to stop this if it bothered you. Is there? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pulling-into-peoples-driveways-to-make-a-k-turn/727070.md?page=3)