# Punch & Judy, USA **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 3, 2007, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241 "2007-08-03T03:38:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241/21 "2007-08-03T14:02:05Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Are these shows relatively unknown in America? Would an American child really be puzzled by the expression “as pleased as punch” American dopers, have you ever seen a Punch And Judy show? [/QUOTE] Yes, yes, and no. All I know about capital-P Punch has been gleaned from British sources. In the linked cartoon, I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that the _cartoonist_ thought the expression referred to punch, the drink. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241/22 "2007-08-03T14:08:11Z")
I know what Punch and Judy is, but I never associated that Punch with the punch in “pleased as punch”. I never thought much about the origin of the phrase. In fact, I’m pretty literal-minded so I actually picture a Dixie cup full of red punch when I hear the expression. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241/23 "2007-08-03T14:19:28Z")
[QUOTE=gigi] I know what Punch and Judy is, but I never associated that Punch with the punch in “pleased as punch”. I never thought much about the origin of the phrase. In fact, I’m pretty literal-minded so I actually picture a Dixie cup full of red punch when I hear the expression. [/QUOTE] [Oh yeah!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kool-Aid_Man) I’ll bet Kool-Aid Man is significantly more familiar to American kids (or former kids) than is Punch. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241/24 "2007-08-03T14:21:36Z")
And you say that P&J shows are actually still performed? Because while we can see it as a quaint old street tradition and all, it’s really kind of bizarre, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241/25 "2007-08-03T14:26:39Z")
[QUOTE=dangermom] Huh, I always assumed it was the drink too. I know what a Punch and Judy show is, but that’s because I read British books all the time and I’m a grownup. I’ve never seen one in real life, though I’ve seen a couple of pictures. But yes, I think you could easily be an American teenager who has never heard of Punch and Judy. [/QUOTE] I’m a 35-year-old Canadian who had absolutely no idea that “Punch and Judy” was the origin of the phrase; I always just figured it was alliterative nonsense. I’ve heard the phrase “Punch and Judy” but wouldn’t know what they looked like and wasn’t sure they were puppets. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241/26 "2007-08-03T14:38:52Z")
[QUOTE=Achren] I know thanks to [Charade](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056923/). Though why a British puppet show is being done in Paris… [/QUOTE] [Punch and Judy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punch_and_judy) originated in Italy, and came to Britain via France. I remember taking a book out from the library when I was a boy that contained Punch and Judy sketches (I had an idea to perform them for my friends). But I think the only times I’ve seen them performed have been on television and in the movies, never in person. Even then, I can’t remember any Punch and Judy on television since the early 1970s. Guess whacking one’s spouse isn’t as funny as it used to be. ---
**Author:** ![I\_m\_Ron\_Burgundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9fc29f/32.png) [@I\_m\_Ron\_Burgundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_m_Ron_Burgundy)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241/27 "2007-08-03T14:41:39Z")
Mark me up for never hearing the phrase before. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241/28 "2007-08-03T14:47:21Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] American dopers, have you ever seen a Punch And Judy show? [/QUOTE] No. I read about them in English children’s books, and occasionally I’d see them in the background of a movie set in England. So I knew that a Punch and Judy show was a puppet show and they hit each other a lot. But I didn’t really know that Punch grinned (or at least not more than any other puppet). I thought the expression had something to do with being drunk, punch (the drink) often having alcohol in it and people are often pleased after drinking it. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241/29 "2007-08-03T23:11:26Z")
Oddly, one context where I consistently heard of Punch and Judy shows was for children on transatlantic ocean liners. I think there’s even one in the Marx Brothers’ movie _Monkey Business_, where Harpo goes behind the box and pulls his “Gookie” face. Though that’s a very old movie, I’m sure I’ve seen the punch-and-judy-passenger-ship idea in more recent productions, and suspect they were popular right up to the end of the regular transatlantic service. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241/30 "2007-08-03T23:24:23Z")
In the 60’s and 70’s you saw adult humor making fun of that terrible puppet show. I would not expect anybody born in the last 25 years in the USA to have even that exposure. I can’t imagine a reason to watch such a rotten violent puppet show. ---
**Author:** ![Soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soul)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2007, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241/31 "2007-08-03T23:27:20Z")
I’ve heard the phrase many times, and this is the first time I’ve ever known what it means. Up until now, I always thought…well, perhaps…you know…they serve punch at parties…where everyone is happy…pleased, even… Ignorance fought! ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2007, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241/32 "2007-08-04T12:46:08Z")
Thanks for the replies, everyone. Interesting that the expression should be well known, while the puppets themselves aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2007, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241/33 "2007-08-04T23:20:47Z")
Peter … I have’t read every link in the thread, but have we in fact established that the “pleased as punch” saying is derived from the Punch character’s happy face? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2007, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241/34 "2007-08-05T00:32:21Z")
Pretty much. Brewers’ Dictionary Of Phrase & Fable says so. > **[Authors - Collection at Bartleby.com](https://www.bartleby.com/lit-hub/authors/)** > > Authors As do several popular word origin columns > **[World Wide Words: Pleased as Punch](http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ple1.htm)** > > What's the origin of the phrase 'as pleased as Punch'? [http://tinyurl.com/yom4g3](http://tinyurl.com/yom4g3) ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2007, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241/35 "2007-08-05T03:39:55Z")
I’m an American and I’ve known what “Punch and Judy” is as long as I’ve known what “punch” the drink is (forever, on both accounts). I have also heard and used “pleased as punch.” Until I opened this thread, though, it never occurred to me that “pleased as punch” is referring to the puppet. I didn’t understand what the hell it had to do with the drink, but there ya go. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2007, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241/36 "2007-08-06T03:00:44Z")
I’m 24, and while I’ve never seen a Punch and Judy show, I’m familiar with the concept (though I can’t remember where I first heard of it). I’ve also heard the phrase “pleased as punch,” but I had never given any thought to a connection with the character Punch – I thought it referred to the pleasing nature of a spiked bowl of punch. ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2007, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241/37 "2007-08-06T17:40:13Z")
I was generally familiar with the Punch & Judy puppet shows, but was also unaware that the phrase was related to the show. Interestingly, in the 1960s the affable Hubert H. Humphrey, U.S. Vice President under Johnson, used the phrase all the time. Given its origin, I wonder if a politician today could use it regularly without getting in trouble. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punch-judy-usa/414241.md?page=1)