# Punctuation Q: single v. double quotes **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 25, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150 "2013-08-25T19:23:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150/1 "2013-08-25T19:23:45Z")
The [Gregg Reference Manual](http://www.amazon.com/Gregg-Reference-Manual-William-Sabin/dp/0072936533) is a grammar bible to me, but I can’t find the answer to my question there. I just saw a line like this in a book I am reading: “Sure, you were,” said ‘Herm The Germ.’ The first phrase is a direct quotation, the second is intended to highlight the person’s unorthodox or slang name, I think. But is this the proper use of double/single quotes? They are not nested. Shouldn’t it be written like this? “Sure, you were,” said “Herm The Germ.” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150/2 "2013-08-25T19:42:05Z")
In that case, I think it helps to make clear that Herm The Germ is not a continuation of the quoted text. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150/3 "2013-08-25T19:50:34Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > In that case, I think it helps to make clear that Herm The Germ is not a continuation of the quoted text. _What_ helps to make clear? Changing quotes? Not changing quotes? Why? What rule are you referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150/4 "2013-08-25T19:54:40Z")
IMHO, using single quotes around Herm The Germ helps to make it clear that Herm The Germ is not a continuation of the quote (“Sure, you were”). ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150/5 "2013-08-25T19:57:17Z")
Agreed^^^ and I’d add that quote marks are evolving rapidly because of online communication. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150/6 "2013-08-25T19:57:42Z")
I don’t see an ambiguity here. Nothing indicates to me that what comes after “said” is being said, but is the name of the speaker. If the sentence read this way, would you still think “Herman” is part of the first quote? I don’t think so. “Sure, you were,” said Herman. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150/7 "2013-08-25T19:58:44Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Agreed^^^ and I’d add that quote marks are evolving rapidly because of online communication. I’m not quoting from an online book. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150/8 "2013-08-25T20:02:59Z")
Didn’t mean to imply you were, just that printed paper books that are current today may not be in 10 years. Today’s rules are in flux but we are too deep in it to see it very often. Quotes are one example. There’s a thread about ‘thru’ vs ‘through’, same concept. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150/9 "2013-08-25T20:09:30Z")
“Sure, you were,” said ‘Herm The Germ’.:o ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150/10 "2013-08-25T20:11:19Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Quotes are one example. There’s a thread about ‘thru’ vs ‘through’, same concept. So why did you use single quotes instead of double? Is there a rule about this? Is it entirely optional? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150/11 "2013-08-25T20:17:31Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > So why did you use single quotes instead of double? Is there a rule about this? Is it entirely optional? The rules go like this: Are you a native speaker of American English? If so, use double quotes, except in the case of quoting within a quote. Nested quotes take single quote marks. Are you British? Use single quotes, if you must, for everything. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150/12 "2013-08-25T20:32:10Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > The rules go like this: > Are you a native speaker of American English? If so, use double quotes, except in the case of quoting within a quote. Nested quotes take single quote marks. > > Are you British? Use single quotes, if you must, for everything. Being British, I hold to the old school, than which there is none better: double quotes for all speech; single quotes for all else. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150/13 "2013-08-25T20:41:03Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Being British, I hold to the old school, than which there is none better: double quotes for all speech; single quotes for all else. I agree it’s better to use double quotes, but your rules of grammar allow you to use single quotes where Americans are not supposed to, which is what I meant by “if you must.” ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150/14 "2013-08-25T20:47:21Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > The rules go like this: > Are you a native speaker of American English? If so, use double quotes, except in the case of quoting within a quote. Nested quotes take single quote marks. It’s a good start, but an incomplete rule if you want to nitpick, and I usually do. Nested quotes should alternate between single and double, in case you are quoting a quoter who’s quoting a quoter, etc. John Barth made fun and excessive use of this in one of this books – _Lost in the Funhouse_, where one line went > [@](#): > > “'”'“I only just came aboard,” she replied. “I haven’t unpacked yet.” (That’s a double, a single, a double, a single and a double, and Barth isn’t done yet. It gets worse.) > [@](#): > > Are you British? Use single quotes, if you must, for everything. > [@Claverhouse](#): > > Being British, I hold to the old school, than which there is none better: double quotes for all speech; single quotes for all else. So this is a Brit/American thing? The book that made me start this thread was published in Florida and written by an American author who happens to live a few miles from me, but his background might be British. I’ll ask him next chance I get. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150/15 "2013-08-25T22:12:59Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > So this is a Brit/American thing? The book that made me start this thread was published in Florida and written by an American author who happens to live a few miles from me, but his background might be British. I’ll ask him next chance I get. Apparently so — although some people in both countries choose which they prefer; there’s no way of enforcing any rule on a permanent basis by fiat ( and that applies to life ) — however, I can only repeat what I may have said earlier on the board: I have never seen a British ( or American ) novel from before 1960 that used single quotes for dialogue. As far as I can make out some British publishers in the 1980s or '90s went nuts and decided to use the single mark thing. Possibly due to computerisation or something. This Australian gentleman **[states](http://www.karlcraig.com/quotation.html)** it is only the publishers here, not the universities. But it looks kinda silly. British publishers don’t get no respect any more ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150/16 "2013-08-26T05:24:23Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Are you British? Use single quotes, if you must, for everything. This is one of those things that many Americans seem to believe about Britain, but that has little basis in fact. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150/17 "2013-08-26T09:22:42Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > As far as I can make out some British publishers in the 1980s or '90s went nuts and decided to use the single mark thing. Possibly due to computerisation or something. It may have become more widespread around the 1980s (though I have the impression it was earlier), but H W Fowler recommended the style as early as 1908, in _The King’s English_. As a bonus, the part that I’ve put in bold answers the OP’s question (or, at least, gives the rationale for that particular style choice). > [@](#): > > There are single and double quotation marks, and, apart from minor peculiarities, two ways of utilizing the variety. The prevailing one is to use double marks for most purposes, and single ones for quotations within quotations, as:—“Well, so he said to me ‘What do you mean by it?’ and I said ‘I didn’t mean anything’”. **Some of those who follow this system also use the single marks for isolated words, short phrases, and anything that can hardly be called a formal quotation; this avoids giving much emphasis to such expressions, which is an advantage.** The more logical method is that adopted, for instance, by the Oxford University Press, of reserving the double marks exclusively for quotations within quotations. Besides the loss of the useful degrees in emphasis (sure, however, to be inconsistently utilized), there is a certain lack of full-dress effect about important quotations when given this way; but that is probably a mere matter of habituation. It should be mentioned that most of the quoted quotations in this section had originally the double marks, but have been altered to suit the more logical method; and the unpleasantness of the needless quotation marks with which we started has so been slightly toned down. (You can read the paragraph in context [here](http://www.bartleby.com/116/406.html)) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punctuation-q-single-v-double-quotes/667150/18 "2013-08-26T14:16:42Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > The [Gregg Reference Manual](http://www.amazon.com/Gregg-Reference-Manual-William-Sabin/dp/0072936533) is a grammar bible to me, but I can’t find the answer to my question there. > > I just saw a line like this in a book I am reading: > > “Sure, you were,” said ‘Herm The Germ.’ > > The first phrase is a direct quotation, the second is intended to highlight the person’s unorthodox or slang name, I think. But is this the proper use of double/single quotes? They are not nested. Shouldn’t it be written like this? > > “Sure, you were,” said “Herm The Germ.” The way you have it written would, indeed, be the conventional approach. But it’s really a stylistic decision. I’ve seen other authors do this (though the names escape me) where the non-quotational use of quotation marks are relegated to single quote marks, while actual quotations get double quotes. (Plus there are specialized uses of single quotes in some academic subjects to set off words with special meanings, or in linguists when a definition follows a word.) As long as the use is consistent, it’s fine.