# Punishments that fit their crimes **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 11, 2004, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punishments-that-fit-their-crimes/233778 "2004-03-11T22:20:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Walton\_Firm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@Walton\_Firm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walton_Firm)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2004, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punishments-that-fit-their-crimes/233778/21 "2004-03-14T10:40:39Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > In the immortal words of the Bard; “Well _du-uh_!” That’s why I included the Heretic’s Fork, too. If I _wasn’t_ trying for some sort of irony, I’d have just made it “death by [beetles](http://www.forensic-entomology.com/beetle.htm)” or something. > > Hey, “Death by Beetles”…_there’s_ a thought… I was not referring to the manner of punishment, but to the irony of you wanting to severely punish people for merely _advocating_ something you disagree with, when that something happens to be censorship. Have you ordered the cane and the guiding dog yet? ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punishments-that-fit-their-crimes/233778/22 "2004-03-15T01:16:53Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > Violence begets pain begets numbness begets violence… > > Forcing down a dose of the same medicine is usually redundant. As tempting as “any eye for an eye” justice may be, it can _never_ even out anything, for anyone. At most it validates the warped coinage of the original offense. Dishing out more of the same, even in the name of society, is just more of the same. > > I’m rather doubt institutional rehabilition works–too wildly individual, not to mention too little, too late–but possibly redemption does. No matter what, separate predators away. Predators don’t have the capacity, or wish, to see to see other people as _just like them_. Paybacks-in-kind just provide a warped validation of the original offense. “What you did was wrong, wrong, wrong, so 'society” is gonna do it right back to you in spades! And let it be a lesson!" > > I do believe that some people are so damaged or just plain evil that nothing can break through their sick self absorption. But I also believe that the best hope, and harshest punishment, is the potential for predators to face what they’ve done. If it works, that’s very fine. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t validate the sick, predatory logic that was the problem in the first place. Thanks for the compliment \*\*TVeblen[\b], I appreciate your glowing reply. Don’t get me wrong; for particularly heinous crimes committed by unmistakably guilty individuals, I do support the death penalty. In those cases, I believe the convict should be put to death as quickly and anonymously as possible, with the media being informed after the fact so as to blunt publicity as much as possible. In this thread, I just don’t think that “paybacks” do anything to prevent subsequent tragedies. Instead, an almost pornographic recitation of punishments ensued which made me feel very uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punishments-that-fit-their-crimes/233778/23 "2004-03-15T03:55:03Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > This is not to say that I believe that _only_ harsh, draconian measures can solve a society’s ills. Progressive social programs have their own place, even a _vital_ place in society. But I don’t believe it’s an “either/or” competition with regards to punishment. Good arguments, **Rancloth** , and I can’t say my own thinking on this has settled yet. I’m in a true crime phase, books and TV. Some of the offenders are so horrific I catch myself wondering whether they’ve crossed a subtle line beyond humanity. It’s mind-aching, and more than a little scary, to ponder when a person just might not be really _human_ any more. The possible causes are even slipperier. Some crimes are just so horrifying that any explanations–psychological, abuse, etc.–seem too murky to grasp. I guess that’s one reason I’d rather err on the side of permanent incarceration. (Not to mention the huge issues of false convictions, fair imposition of sentences, etc.) It’s an attempt, possibly just symbolic, to reject pain and violence as viable options for anybody, singly or societally. There’s also a huge element of the old thing about when you peer into the abyss, the abyss peers right back at you. (Almost like a mirror?) I have my share of engraged, disgusted, pay-'em-back-in-kind moments. They leave me feeling sick, dirty and rather smaller once the initial rage subsides. Abyss vertigo. Vicious reprisals are still just more viciousness. Quite beyond what they do to the criminal, I don’t like what they do to me. I think they slide me an uncomfortable way down to that blurry line of inhumanity. It’s the farthest thing from forgiveness. I’m not good at that at all. It’s a strong rejection of lowering myself to their level or accepting their sick, vicious ways. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punishments-that-fit-their-crimes/233778/24 "2004-03-15T04:33:07Z")
> [@Martin Wolf](#): > > I was not referring to the manner of punishment, but to the irony of you wanting to severely punish people for merely _advocating_ something you disagree with, when that something happens to be censorship. I’d consider it “Poetic Justice” myself. Kind of a twisted, Rod Serling “Twilight Zone” justice. If someone wants to stop someone else’s speech, then they’ll have that desire reflected right back at them. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punishments-that-fit-their-crimes/233778/25 "2004-03-15T06:05:55Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > Good arguments, Rancloth, and I can’t say my own thinking on this has settled yet. And I thank you for that, sir. > [@TVeblen](#): > > There’s also a huge element of the old thing about when you peer into the abyss, the abyss peers right back at you. (Almost like a mirror?) I have my share of engraged, disgusted, pay-'em-back-in-kind moments. They leave me feeling sick, dirty and rather smaller once the initial rage subsides. Abyss vertigo. Vicious reprisals are still just more viciousness. Quite beyond what they do to the criminal, I don’t like what they do to me. I think they slide me an uncomfortable way down to that blurry line of inhumanity. It’s the farthest thing from forgiveness. I’m not good at that at all. It’s a strong rejection of lowering myself to their level or accepting their sick, vicious ways. One might argue…soldiers, and people in the military, kill people all the time, in some of the most violent and horrific ways possible. And the guys that _they_ kill often aren’t even evil…they’re just the grunts working for the other side. But we don’t consider _soldiers_ to be “evil” because of what they do. Nor do we think that _all_ warfare is _always_ wrong and evil…sometimes, it’s neccesary. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punishments-that-fit-their-crimes/233778/26 "2004-03-15T16:27:15Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > It says in the latest issue of “Rolling Stone” that a Florida man who was charged with a noise violation for playing 50 Cent’s “In Da Club” too loudly on his car stereo was sentenced to listen to Verdi’s opera _La Traviata_ in its entirety. Oh, come on. Three hours of Verdi is a fairly light punishment. Now make it Wagner instead… Maybe for the second offense. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/punishments-that-fit-their-crimes/233778.md?page=1)