# Puny humans, help me understand and appreciate musical theatre! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 24, 2006, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642 "2006-11-24T14:52:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/21 "2006-11-24T23:44:05Z")
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas] Jesus Christ Superstar, the original movie (not the video remake). It’s somewhat dated but still fun to watch. [/QUOTE] Along the same lines, _Godspell_. Dated somewhat now, but an interesting glimpse of the early 70s. Also, catchy songs, Victor Garber and Lynne Thigpen, and a surprisingly depopulated New York City. Another vote for _Guys and Dolls_ as well. Brando is a little wooden at times, but he does a good job. Sinatra does fine, and the gang of “Guys” are just plain fun: Nathan: “Benny, tell 'em what a bum you are.” Benny: “I was a bad guy and a bad gambler. I wanna be a good guy and a good gambler. I thank you.” ---
**Author:** ![Mrs.Cake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mrs.Cake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs.Cake)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/22 "2006-11-25T00:17:23Z")
And **1776** , one of my favorites. When I was about 10, my mom took me to see **Sound of Music** , which was playing in a double feature with **1776**. She didn’t intend to stay for it, thinking I’d have no interest. It has been my #1 favorite ever since. I barely remembered SOM. William Daniels is so perfect as John Adams. ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/23 "2006-11-25T00:50:36Z")
Since I’ve already had my recommendations yanked from under me, I’ll just make a few points 1. Don’t watch Sound of Music. Ever. No. Not even while drunk. > [@](#): > > And 1776, one of my favorites. When I was about 10, my mom took me to see Sound of Music, which was playing in a double feature with 1776. She didn’t intend to stay for it, thinking I’d have no interest. It has been my #1 favorite ever since. I barely remembered SOM. William Daniels is so perfect as John Adams. Saltpeter. Nuf said. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/24 "2006-11-25T01:07:17Z")
Music Man! lots of Hollwood movie musicals are fun-Fred and Ginger; Gene Kelly and insert female dancer/singer here etc. Oklahoma, Carousel, Kismet (why not, what the hell). Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, Showboat, The Pajama Game–all have good songs and numbers. Often with musicals, the plot is a wee thin. This can be ok, but sometimes you really have to suspend disbelief… If you get really into it-there’s always Gilbert and Sullivan. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/25 "2006-11-25T01:08:52Z")
Oh yeah. 1776 is great. But fast forward that stupid violin song! (Do I speak heresy? Tough!) ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/26 "2006-11-25T01:18:37Z")
Bells Are Ringing with Judy Holliday and Dean Martin-fantastically funny and a good double feature for Guys and Dolls. Singin in the Rain-another wonderful one. Can’t dredge my brain pan for more. There was a time when I could reel them off, but… ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/27 "2006-11-25T01:30:13Z")
[QUOTE=kawaiitentaclebeast] Ahem, that should be I really LIKED them all, of course. Also, forgot to add Grease to the list (which I also enjoyed). I haven;t gotten around to watching the sequel yet. [/QUOTE] For the love of GOD never EVER watch GREASE 2. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/28 "2006-11-25T03:19:49Z")
Heh. It’s my SIL’s favorite movie. That and Curly Sue. We don’t talk a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Mrs.Cake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mrs.Cake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs.Cake)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/29 "2006-11-25T03:52:26Z")
**jsgoddess** , you nailed it - that’s the one part I can’t watch. It feels artificially tacked on as the obligatory love song some producer decided was needed at the last minute. Oh, another musical I love but was never a Broadway show - The Court Jester ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/30 "2006-11-25T04:19:45Z")
I love _The Music Man_ and _Fiddler on the Roof_ too. If you’re willing to go hard-core, rent _The Pirates of Penzance_, which is the easiest Gilbert & Sullivan. There was a movie made of it in the early 80’s with Linda Ronstadt and Kevin Kline (it was mostly the Broadway cast, and this was Kline’s break into movies from there), and I think it’s hilarious. You have to understand that G&S poked fun at their society, and _everyone_ in the play is kind of silly. The title doesn’t mean as much to us modern Americans, but you might as well call it _The Pirates of Pismo Beach_ and it would mean essentially the same thing. Listen well to the words, 'cause they’re really funny. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/31 "2006-11-25T04:43:07Z")
[QUOTE=kawaiitentaclebeast] Questions: 1. I understand in the older productions, the music is dubbed on later. What about with the newer ones like Chicago and Rent? [/QUOTE] I don’t remember seeing an answer to this. Music for movies is always recorded _first_. It’s a million times easier for people to sing and dance along with pre-recorded music than for musicians to try to sync up with pre-recorded movements. (You can’t see mouths half the time, for one of many things.) It’s almost impossible for most people, even professionals, to sing perfectly while dancing. Movie dances are longer, weirder, and more complicated than stage dances. They’re cut into many pieces with many camera angles. Filming a dance can take several days. The odds that the performers could pick up exactly where they’re supposed to be over dozens of takes over many days and come up with a song perfectly in tune, tone, harmony, and rhythm are exactly zero. The music has to come first. One film that hasn’t yet been mentioned is _A Funny Thing Happened on My Way to the Forum._ Not only is it hysterically funny, with the best Zero Mostel performance ever captured on film, it has a Sondheim soundtrack from the days he actually wrote hummable tunes. Imagine! ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/32 "2006-11-25T05:14:54Z")
[QUOTE=kawaiitentaclebeast] Also, forgot to add Grease to the list (which I also enjoyed). I haven;t gotten around to watching the sequel yet. [/QUOTE] Don’t. Until you know you love musicals and/or are ready to MST3k one. I think all of the ones I’d recommend have already been recommended. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/33 "2006-11-25T05:39:44Z")
Of course, there’s also the “jukebox shows.” But they’re only watchable if you’re a fan of the artist(s) that feature in the music. Most of them have the thinnest of plots (even for a musical!) that are contrived to fit the works the show is meant to feature, as they’d have to be. **supervenusfreak** loves _Mamma Mia!_, but the frame story is incredibly lightweight. I keep getting it mixed up with _Muriel’s Wedding_ because of the strong ABBA theme in both. I have absolutely no idea what the frame story for _Moving Out_ is, and even though I like Billy Joel, the stage versions of his songs have absolutely no soul whatsoever. _Jersey Boys_, on the other hand, has wonderful renditions of Frankie Vallee’s catalogue. The show is ostensibly about the history of the Four Seasons. Oh, and go see _Dreamgirls_ when it comes out this month. You will not regret that. I would have killed to see Jennifer Holliday star in the movie in the role she OWNED on Broadway, but I have hopes for Hudson. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/34 "2006-11-25T05:57:55Z")
Thank you for all the kind suggestions, I’ve taken them to heart. I’m definitely a musical kind of guy, and I can’t wait to check out 1776 and the others you guys have mentioned, that being said: I just got through about 3/4 of _Grease 2_, and I agree it doesn’t quite compare to the original. The singing voices just don’t match up to the actors, the dance sequences are not as elaborate or well choreographed, and overall it just has a cheap, direct-to-video feel to it. I might finish it tomorow, or maybe not. I moved on to _South Pacific_, the first number was catchy, but the plot wasn’t moving fast enough for me and the songs were getting tedious. I probably will finish it tomorow too. I actually find the characters to be fairly likeable, so I think this one won’t be too bad. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/35 "2006-11-25T07:21:19Z")
I’ve had the idea recently that there are a lot of musicals that you’ll never like if you didn’t grow up with them from childhood. I grew up watching a lot of the musicals of the '50s and '60s (all the Rodgers and Hammerstein stuff, The Music Man, etc.), and thought they were great. But then yesterday after Thanksgiving dinner, someone put on “The Sound of Music” for my younger cousins. It was the first time I’d seen it in years, and I was amazed how treacly it can be. If I’d seen it first at this age I probably wouldn’t have liked it much. Similarly, a friend once made me sit down and watch “Paint Your Wagon” because it was her favorite movie growing up. It was just bizarre – a Old West musical with a pro-polygamy agenda?? But she loved it. So **IF** you buy into that theory, it cuts out a lot of the more sentimental, old-fashioned stuff, like much of the R&H stuff, Meet me in St. Louis, Fiddler on the Roof, and the like. Among the musicals I think you could enjoy seeing the first time as an adult (some repeats here): **Jesus Christ Superstar Little Shop of Horrors Swingtime (Astaire and Rogers) Singin’ in the Rain 1776 The Band Wagon A lot of the Bing Crosby/Bob Hope road movies** ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/36 "2006-11-25T09:28:11Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Let’s see…_South Pacific_ has some really good songs (I’ve had “Happy Talk” running through my head for three days now). [/QUOTE] " and this dear lassie, oh what a chassis" cracked me up damn near every time. ---
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/37 "2006-11-25T12:08:41Z")
And another note- musical theater is meant to be performed in a theater. Movie adaptations are fun, but if you really want to appreciate musical theater, you need to see it live- in your own city when a touring group of something interesting comes through is okay, but even better is to see it in New York. Oh, and regarding movies- don’t miss “Kiss Me Kate.” I love that movie. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/38 "2006-11-25T13:16:12Z")
[QUOTE=FisherQueen] Oh, and regarding movies- don’t miss “Kiss Me Kate.” I love that movie. [/QUOTE] Oh, my Og, how did I forget _KMK_?! I enthusiastically second this suggestion. _Mr. Harris, plutocrat, wants to give my cheek a pat. If a Harris pat means a Paris hat, bebe! Ooh-la-la! Mais je suis toujour fidel, darling, in my fashion. Oui, je suis toujour fidel, darling, in my way._ ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/39 "2006-11-25T13:20:12Z")
[QUOTE=dangermom] If you’re willing to go hard-core, rent _The Pirates of Penzance_, which is the easiest Gilbert & Sullivan. There was a movie made of it in the early 80’s with Linda Ronstadt and Kevin Kline (it was mostly the Broadway cast, and this was Kline’s break into movies from there), and I think it’s hilarious. You have to understand that G&S poked fun at their society, and _everyone_ in the play is kind of silly. The title doesn’t mean as much to us modern Americans, but you might as well call it _The Pirates of Pismo Beach_ and it would mean essentially the same thing. Listen well to the words, 'cause they’re really funny. [/QUOTE] My husband and I LOVE that movie! It’s hilarious to us too, we love all the actors (Kevin Kline’s a blast!) and we were sad that it got such terrible reviews at the time. To this day I don’t know why it was treated so badly. I think it was partially a predjudice against the casting of Linda Ronstadt and Rex Smith, but I think they’re both very good. Angela Lansbury’s a hoot too. Anyone who wants to watch it has to look for a used VHS or Beta, because it still hasn’t been released on DVD. Grrr. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642/40 "2006-11-25T16:16:25Z")
[QUOTE=Equipoise] My husband and I LOVE that movie! It’s hilarious to us too, we love all the actors (Kevin Kline’s a blast!) and we were sad that it got such terrible reviews at the time. To this day I don’t know why it was treated so badly. I think it was partially a predjudice against the casting of Linda Ronstadt and Rex Smith, but I think they’re both very good. Angela Lansbury’s a hoot too. Anyone who wants to watch it has to look for a used VHS or Beta, because it still hasn’t been released on DVD. Grrr. [/QUOTE] I agree! I’m not old enough to remember the reviews, though. I didn’t know it wasn’t out on DVD yet (isn’t _everything_ out on DVD by now? For Pete’s sake, my brother’s been watching \*G-Force \*on DVD!), so I’m glad we have our old video tape off the TV. We’ve been enjoying it again lately since we bought a new VCR/DVD–our old VCR died over a year ago. Our little girls love it even though they don’t get the jokes, but my husband can’t stand G&S–I guess because he didn’t grow up on it like I did. The only musical he likes is _The Music Man_. If the movie didn’t get good reviews, then why on earth was _The Pirate Movie_ made? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puny-humans-help-me-understand-and-appreciate-musical-theatre/381642.md?page=3)