# Pupil who killed teacher convicted **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 3, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559 "2014-11-03T23:43:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559/1 "2014-11-03T23:43:05Z")
William Cornick has been [sentenced](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29879865) to life imprisonment. He’ll serve a minimum of 20 years before being considered for parole. This was a truly horrific crime. The judge’s [sentencing remarks](http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/r-v-cornick.pdf) (pdf) make for grim reading. > [@Judge](#): > > In my view, these remarks – your pride in what you did, and your complete lack of remorse – are truly grotesque… I sincerely hope that he matures and comes to recognise the error of his ways and repent of his horrible crime. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559/2 "2014-11-03T23:47:28Z")
I’m stunned that he could even be considered for parole at all. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559/3 "2014-11-04T01:36:40Z")
> [@](#): > > I sincerely hope that he matures and comes to recognise the error of his ways and repent of his horrible crime. repent to who, for what? he’s utterly broken and needs to be kept the hell away from everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559/4 "2014-11-04T01:40:57Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > William Cornick has been [sentenced](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29879865) to life imprisonment. This was good. > [@](#): > > He’ll serve a minimum of 20 years before being considered for parole. This is not. He needs to be kept in a cage until he dies. That’s what life imprisonment is supposed to be. If he’s not going to be kept in the cage, don’t call it life imprisonment, because it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![manila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@manila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manila)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559/5 "2014-11-04T04:43:03Z")
Wow that makes grim reading. What is also appalling is that there were so many opportunities to raise the alarm. And all kept quiet. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559/6 "2014-11-04T05:08:22Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I sincerely hope that he matures and comes to recognise the error of his ways and repent of his horrible crime. From the sound of it, he’s a sociopath, so there’s probably extremely little chance of this happening. That’s not the kind of person who repents or matures. Perhaps the reason he’s eligible for parole is his age? That’s the ONLY reason I can possibly imagine. (And hopefully, it won’t happen) ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559/7 "2014-11-04T05:48:12Z")
> [@manila](#): > > Wow that makes grim reading. > > What is also appalling is that there were so many opportunities to raise the alarm. And all kept quiet. I’m not gleaning any such thing from that story, except the friend he conversed with on Facebook months earlier, who it’s not apparently told anyone about it until after the incident. I’ve just heard of this story from this thread, is there more that’s not covered in the BBC articles (I dug through all the linked stories going back to April as well) that would lead you to say there were more people that his Facebook buddy who could have done something? From the BBC article linked in the OP: > [@](#): > > Ch Supt Paul Money, of West Yorkshire Police, said no person acting in authority could have foreseen the “cold-blooded” and “cowardly” murder. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559/8 "2014-11-04T09:45:56Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > He needs to be kept in a cage until he dies. That’s what life imprisonment is supposed to be. If he’s not going to be kept in the cage, don’t call it life imprisonment, because it’s not. And he may well die in jail/hospital. He is deeply disturbed and he’ll be under treatment and surveillance constantly. I think this sentence strikes exactly the right balance and leaves all options open. Long enough to emphasise the seriousness while still allowing the possibility of rehabilitation. (he was 15 and may or may not be a lost cause) The official reactions suggest to me that he will likely never be released and that too would be a legitimate course of action. We don’t execute anyone, never mind 16 year olds so considering the other potential options I think justice is served well by this sort of sentence. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559/9 "2014-11-04T10:01:10Z")
[He has diabetes](http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/03/will-cornick-leeds-ann-maguire-murdered-teacher-jail) (at 16). Indeed, it seems to have been learning of his diagnosis that sent him over the edge. I doubt whether he will survive long enough to be considered for parole from this sentence. I do not know, but I imagine that the eligibility to be considered for (not necessarily actually granted) parole after 20 years is written into the law. The sentence may well be the maximum that the judge has the power to impose. It was certainly well above the statutory minimum, and is [already being criticized as too harsh, and “out of step” with the rest of western Europe](http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/04/sentence-will-cornick-ann-maguire-teacher-western-europe). Most first-world legal systems do not share the level of institutionalized vindictiveness of the American one. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559/10 "2014-11-04T11:34:03Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > [He has diabetes](http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/03/will-cornick-leeds-ann-maguire-murdered-teacher-jail) (at 16). Indeed, it seems to have been learning of his diagnosis that sent him over the edge. I doubt whether he will survive long enough to be considered for parole from this sentence. I don’t understand this paragraph. Don’t they have health care in prisons there? Diabetes isn’t likely to kill a man at 36 unless he tries pretty hard to die. Or do you mean he’s a suicide risk because he can’t handle the diagnosis? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559/11 "2014-11-04T12:31:53Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I don’t understand this paragraph. Don’t they have health care in prisons there? Diabetes isn’t likely to kill a man at 36 unless he tries pretty hard to die. Or do you mean he’s a suicide risk because he can’t handle the diagnosis? Does he have to treat himself? If he chooses not to, will they restrain him multiple times a day to check his blood and administer his insulin? ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559/12 "2014-11-04T20:19:44Z")
If he chooses not to take his medication it can be forced on him, he is classed as a child and the Youth Justice Board will be classed as his custodian. Once he reaches a certain age, then its likely that if he declines his medication there would be a process to determine if he was competent to make such a decision, but even so his right to decide would probably be determined by courts. Diabetes treatment can easily be compromised in fact it takes more than a little work just to keep it under control when you are motivated to do so, for someone who is actively motivated against controlling it, well I don’t see any way to prevent that happening. I obviously know folk who know him since he was locked up, and it would not be appropriate to comment on him, but make no mistake, there are others who are not too different but have not yet chosen to express themselves in the same way., and those that have, > **[Kevin Bennett murder: Three boys locked up for kicking a homeless man to...](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/kevin-bennett-murder-three-boys-1833684)** > > Trio locked up indefinitely for unprovoked attack, with murderer's brother Connor Doran told he will serve he will serve at least 12 years > **[You're pathetic: Judge's verdict on mother with an eldest son in jail for...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2309431/Linda-Doran-Judges-verdict-mother-eldest-son-jail-murder-caged-kicking-tramp-death.html)** > > Connor Doran, 17, (pictured) his brother Brandon, 14, and their friend Simon Evans, 14, were today locked up for kicking homeless man Kevin Bennett, 53, to death in Walton, Liverpool. There are also others who you would think are well beyond any redemption, but being incarcerated has given them structure and values in their lives they have never experienced before, and they seem to be turning out pretty much like any other kid. ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559/13 "2014-11-04T20:30:21Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Perhaps the reason he’s eligible for parole is his age? That’s the ONLY reason I can possibly imagine. (And hopefully, it won’t happen) Here in MA the SJC recently ruled that [juveniles can’t be sentenced to life without the possibility of parole](http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/24/mass-high-court-strikes-down-life-without-parole-sentences-for-juveniles/eyjKrVSE2EXD0KF7wQXX5M/story.html), the reasoning being that their brains are not yet fully developed: “Simply put, because the brain of a juvenile is not fully developed, either structurally or functionally, by the age of eighteen, a judge cannot find with confidence that a particular offender, at that point in time, is irretrievably depraved,” the court wrote. “Therefore, it follows that the judge cannot ascertain, with any reasonable degree of certainty, whether imposition of this most severe punishment is warranted.” I agree with them. Remember, just because someone is eligible to apply for parole doesn’t mean it will be granted. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559/14 "2014-11-04T21:07:30Z")
This story brings to mind a fictional court ruling that was allegedly issued in 1881, allegedly in the U.S. New Mexico Territory, and allegedly by “hanging” Isaac Judge Parker. I think it would be an appropriate sentence, with only a name change, for the psychopathic, remorseless, coldblooded, Will Cornick. \*"Will Cornick, in a few short weeks, it will be spring. The snows of winter will flee away, the ice will vanish, and the annual miracle of the years will awaken and come to pass, but you won’t be there. "The rivulet will run its course to the sea, the timid desert flowers will put forth their tender shoots, the glorious valleys of this imperial domain will blossom as the rose. Still, you won’t be there to see. "From every treetop some wild woods songster will carol his mating song, butterflies will sport in the sunshine, the busy bee will hum happy as it pursues its accustomed vocation. The gentle breeze will tease the tassels of the wild grasses, and all nature, Will Cornick, will be glad, but you. "You won’t be there to enjoy it because I command the sheriff, or some officers of the country, to lead you out to some remote spot, swing you by the neck from a knotting bough of a sturdy oak, and let you hang until you are dead. “And then, Will Cornick, I further command that such officer or officers retire quickly from your dangling corpse, that vultures may descend from the heavens upon your filthy body until nothing shall remain but the bare bleached bones of a cold-blooded, copper-colored, blood-thirsty, throat-cutting, chili-eating, sheep-herding, murdering son-of-a-bitch.”\* IMHO, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559/15 "2014-11-04T22:55:19Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > This story brings to mind a fictional court ruling that was allegedly issued in 1881, allegedly in the U.S. New Mexico Territory, and allegedly by “hanging” Isaac Judge Parker. > > I think it would be an appropriate sentence, with only a name change, for the psychopathic, remorseless, coldblooded, Will Cornick. … I shan’t repeat that piece of flowery drivel, I do note the glee you take in imagining the killing of this 16 year old and I can’t say it does you any credit. If anything your scenario is uglier than the crime itself. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559/16 "2014-11-04T23:55:43Z")
He’s 16. In 2 years he will be a different person, and in 5 years he will be an adult and a different person. In 20 years, he will be an adult, a different person, and someone who has spent most of his life surrounded by violence, criminals, and a disfunctional society. And convicts. Right now, he is in a situation that is designed to evoke a fight-or-flight response, including (at best) a “stiff upper lip”, a system which even it’s apologists describe as “adversarial”. Given the nature of this group, you probably don’t care, but I’m going to close by expressing a personal opinion: Isaiah 64:6. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559/17 "2014-11-05T00:47:12Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > He’s 16. 16 year olds know damn well what killing a person entails. > [@](#): > > In 2 years he will be a different person, and in 5 years he will be an adult and a different person. no he won’t. I’m not a “different person” than I was when I was 16. I have more life experience which means I will interpret and react differently to things than I would have at 16, but I’m not a different person. > [@](#): > > In 20 years, he will be an adult, a different person, and someone who has spent most of his life surrounded by violence, criminals, and a disfunctional society. And convicts. and he will have spent that time amongst those people because he murdered someone because he thought it was a neat thing to do, and afterwards acted like it was no big deal. > [@](#): > > Right now, he is in a situation that is designed to evoke a fight-or-flight response, including (at best) a “stiff upper lip”, a system which even it’s apologists describe as “adversarial”. _he stabbed a person multiple times for the express purpose of ending her life, solely because he wanted to._ Fuck him. he’s broken. > [@](#): > > Given the nature of this group, you probably don’t care, but I’m going to close by expressing a personal opinion: Isaiah 64:6. cute. I’ve never taken someone’s life “just because.” ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pupil-who-killed-teacher-convicted/703559/18 "2014-11-05T01:21:21Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I shan’t repeat that piece of flowery drivel, I do note the glee you take in imagining the killing of this 16 year old and I can’t say it does you any credit. If anything your scenario is uglier than the crime itself. Good times? Ann Maguire is dead. Ann Maguire will never teach again. Ann Maguire was murdered in front of her students. Why? Ann Maguire was 61 years of age, 5ft 2in in height, and of slim build. Will Cornick was a full foot taller and was armed with a large kitchen knife. Maguire never even knew she was in danger. There was no warning. The psychopathic Cornick’s twisted mind randomly chose to murder Maguire. His twisted mind could just as easily selected any of the other children, or you, or your mom. Is there a cure for the psychopath? According to the linked article - \*The court heard Mrs Maguire had been leaning over her desk helping a girl with her work when the boy attacked her from behind after winking at another pupil in the classroom. “The defendant approached his teacher and began to stab her in the neck and back,” said Mr Greaney. …The prosecutor said Mrs Maguire fled but was chased by Cornick, who was “stabbing her as she sought to escape”. ‘Proud of what he did’ Mrs Maguire was stabbed seven times before colleague Susan Francis, alerted by children screaming, rushed her friend into a work room and held the door shut. Mr Greaney said: “She was able to see the boy through a glass panel in the door. His face was emotionless and he then walked away.” Cornick went back to the classroom and sat down “as if nothing had happened”, the prosecutor told the court. “He said that he had stabbed Mrs Maguire,” said Mr Greaney. "He added that it was a pity she was not dead. “He said to the entire class ‘good times’ and spoke of an adrenaline rush.” The boy told a psychiatrist after the killing that he had a “sense of pride” in killing Mrs Maguire,… …Mr Greaney said when the expert asked about the impact on Mrs Maguire’s family, Cornick replied: "I know the victim’s family will be upset but I don’t care. “In my eyes, everything I’ve done is fine and dandy.” “It’s kill or be killed. I did not have a choice. It was kill her or suicide.”\* Good times, indeed. I wish Cornick had chosen suicide instead.