# Purported Video of "Evacuation" During Boston Bombing Search **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 23, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495 "2013-04-23T14:50:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/41 "2013-04-25T00:46:52Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > What he said Yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/42 "2013-04-25T04:23:42Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Police with guns aren’t scary. Police with guns pointed at my head, with some pull on an X pound trigger that is almost certainly greater than zero - that’s scary. I’d like to see a cite on this claim too. Unless you’re a character in a TV show, or unless they intend to shoot you and shoot to kill, standard police doctrine wouldn’t have them pointing guns at _any_ part of your body. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/43 "2013-04-25T19:02:01Z")
OP - you haven’t suggested what the police should have done. Unlike those involved, you have had many days to think about it. Your hindsight seems to be 20/20. NOW you know that he was pretty badly inured. NOW you know that he wasn’t part of some larger scheme. Since they had him ID’ed they should have just gone home and waited for him to renew his drivers license and then grabbed him. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/44 "2013-04-25T21:41:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’d like to see a cite on this claim too. Unless you’re a character in a TV show, or unless they intend to shoot you and shoot to kill, standard police doctrine wouldn’t have them pointing guns at _any_ part of your body. Might want to tell that to [this guy](http://jimbovard.com/blog/2013/04/22/boston-death-sentence-for-looking-out-window/). Maybe he did intend to shoot the picture taker; who knows? You usually don’t point your rifle/smg at some one just standing in a window though. From the link that **aceplace57** posted in another thread on this, the police turned a boat into swiss cheese, despite no weapon on the bad guy—hence, no way to shoot at them or fire a shot—and the intelligence value if they took the guy alive. I linked (before the photographer sold them) to a post from a guy who took pictures of the midnight gunfight the brothers had. He managed to get a stray round on the second floor of his house. Big one too, judging by the hole through his roomie’s swivel chair. In short, from those instances, and other police uses of deadly force, I’ve very little faith in police restraint when it comes to firearms use. Especially during an event like this. Very little liability due to qualified immunity and a population and media that will excuse every excess will do that. The headline at the link is way too inflammatory, I agree, but it looks like the police got confused and thought they were doing a cordon and search in some place like Al Anbar Province or the Shahi-Kot Valley. Not the way you’d expect a police force following Peel’s Principles would act. Just wait; my bet is that a lot more stories will come trickling out about just how ‘voluntary’ homeowners felt in consenting to have their homes searched. As to what the police should have done, **MikeF** , you have a population that wants to help, is carrying cell phones and cameras, so why not use them? Tell them what we used to tell people back in the days when someone like Machine Gun Kelly was on the loose. Or the last time [Boston got bombed](http://www.askthepilot.com/letter-from-boston/). “Here’s his picture, he was last seen here at this time, call this number if you see him, he’s extremely dangerous.” Watch the usual transportation hubs and have a bunch of officers on the streets. Most people _want_ to help the police. Let them. Let people go back to work and their lives. This worked well for my lifetime. The piece of filth got caught practically as soon as the curfew was lifted, by a regular citizen who saw something and called the cops. Instead, we got something out of the Soviet Union playbook, at an estimated economic cost to Boston of over 350 million dollars. And most of you here ITT seem to be fine with it, even as it didn’t work. I don’t get it. Don’t think this is the last time we’ll see something like this. Given that law enforcement and civic leaders first priority is to minimize risk, why wouldn’t they try to shut down a city the next time some idiot shooter starts running around? Especially since the only people who seem irritated by this are civil libertarians, and who listens to them anyway? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/45 "2013-04-25T22:10:45Z")
\How does Boston Bomber story go from a shootout in a boat to no gun found on suspect? More holes than Swiss cheese\ ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/46 "2013-04-25T22:36:00Z")
Who exactly was reporting a shootout? If it was anyone but the police, I’d say the answer is pretty obvious. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/47 "2013-04-25T22:48:34Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Who exactly was reporting a shootout? If it was anyone but the police, I’d say the answer is pretty obvious. Bit of a Google vomit, but actually there are all kinds of (credible?) sources there: [**No Gun On Suspect Found**](https://www.google.com.do/search?q=Boston+Bomber+story+go+from+a+shootout+in+a+boat+to+no+gun+found+on+suspect&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs&sei=X7F5Ub7QE5Wn4AO1p4G4Cg&gbv=2#q=Boston+Bomber+story+go+from+a+shootout+in+a+boat+to+no+gun+found+on+suspect&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=rcs&gbv=2&source=univ&tbm=nws&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=X7F5UevVIvXD4AOS1IDADw&ved=0CC0QqAI&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45645796,d.dmg&fp=5d76ff865d689842&biw=1120&bih=530). ETA: All the media in the vicinity reported it as well. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/48 "2013-04-25T23:03:04Z")
Yes, that certainly backs up that no gun was found on the suspect. What I asked was, who was reporting a _shootout_? (IOW, did the police officially say that there was an actual exchange of gunfire between them and the suspect?) ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/49 "2013-04-25T23:18:15Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Yes, that certainly backs up that no gun was found on the suspect. > > What I asked was, who was reporting a _shootout_? (IOW, did the police officially say that there was an actual exchange of gunfire between them and the suspect?) Not going to search again, as I am short on time – but I seem to recall the Boston Police Chief side-step the question - while the couple of reporters on scene DID report “intense gunfire” or words to that affect. Of course, none were on the actual grounds but rather reporting from a safe distance. Hope that helps. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/50 "2013-04-26T00:35:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Constitutional grounds would be the “exigent circumstances” exception to the warrant requirement, which is iffy. In a more general sense, the common law is understood to grant certain emergency powers to the government in a time of crisis, which is why municipalities can impose curfews during a hurricane (by way of example). The limits and triggering conditions for such powers are a bit murky. It’s extremely “iffy” if not outright ridiculous. If the police hear a woman screaming inside a house, that is an exigent circumstance to enter without waiting for a warrant. A fugitive on the loose in a specific area does not turn into a general warrant to search everyone’s home in the area. How wide does this exigent circumstance continue? If I hear a gunshot in the city, can the cops search everyone’s home within earshot? ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/51 "2013-04-26T13:47:58Z")
O.K. I’ll bite. His photo has been circulated to every man, woman and child with the instructions “Call us if you see him and take a few pictures”. Then what? “Keep an eye on him until we get there”? Just wait at the usual transportation hubs, put a bunch of cops on the street and wait passively for him to appear? “There he is! Damn, we lost him again. We’ll just wait around until someone sees him again.” Not a very good plan, me thinks. Not with someone who has already demonstrated the ability and willingness to kill innocent people. And what do you mean it didn’t work? A massive manhunt forced this guy to go into hiding and, apparently, continue to bleed. No one else got hurt and the scum bag is in custody. This wasn’t a coincidence. It was the result of the hunt. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/52 "2013-04-26T16:51:25Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Might want to tell that to [this guy](http://jimbovard.com/blog/2013/04/22/boston-death-sentence-for-looking-out-window/). > > Maybe he did intend to shoot the picture taker; who knows? I don’t really see a problem with this. The cops are looking for a suspect who has killed multiple people and had a shoot-out with the cops a few hours earlier (I’m assuming the picture above was taken on Friday). An MIT cop is dead. If you were a cop walking down the street and somebody popped their head into a window, _after being told not to_, how would you react? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/53 "2013-04-26T17:05:07Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I don’t really see a problem with this. The cops are looking for a suspect who has killed multiple people and had a shoot-out with the cops a few hours earlier (I’m assuming the picture above was taken on Friday). An MIT cop is dead. If you were a cop walking down the street and somebody popped their head into a window, _after being told not to_, how would you react? He most certainly would have shot the picture taker if he felt the picture taker had a gun, grenade or pressure cooker instead of a camera. I take the lack of such incidents to be a validation of the training the law enforcement personnel had received. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/54 "2013-04-26T18:58:10Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I don’t really see a problem with this. … If you were a cop walking down the street and somebody popped their head into a window, _after being told not to_, … Are we in Communist China? Are we in a military zone? I don’t and will never believe that a person in a free country, in his own home, should be “told” to do anything. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/55 "2013-04-26T19:03:29Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I don’t really see a problem with this. The cops are looking for a suspect who has killed multiple people and had a shoot-out with the cops a few hours earlier (I’m assuming the picture above was taken on Friday). An MIT cop is dead. If you were a cop walking down the street and somebody popped their head into a window, _after being told not to_, how would you react? He didn’t pop his head out the window. He was just looking through it. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/56 "2013-04-26T23:00:04Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Are we in Communist China? Are we in a military zone? I don’t and will never believe that a person in a free country, in his own home, should be “told” to do anything. If the picture-taker was arrested or otherwise harassed then I’d agree with you. The command to stay away from the windows was more of a guideline, and a reasonable one, intended for the public’s safety. Again I ask: given that they were looking for a suspect who recently killed an MIT security guard, had a shoot-out with police, and set off bombs how would you expect the cops to react? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/57 "2013-04-27T00:42:44Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > If the picture-taker was arrested or otherwise harassed then I’d agree with you. The command to stay away from the windows was more of a guideline, and a reasonable one, intended for the public’s safety. > > Again I ask: given that they were looking for a suspect who recently killed an MIT security guard, had a shoot-out with police, and set off bombs how would you expect the cops to react? Pointing a gun at someone doesn’t count as harassment? OTOH, if the cops are going to point guns at anyone showing head, maybe it _is_ safer if people crouch away from the windows. Behind hard cover. I expect the police to act as paid professionals. As policemen, not soldiers. If we just wanted people to perform a cordon and search, Deval Patrick could have declared a state of emergency, called out the National Guard, and had them treat Watertown as an militarily-occupied area. Again, this is one guy—armed and dangerous, yes—who also threw improvised explosives. He did not have an NBC weapon, and he was by himself. Had he one, or if he was part of a Mumbai-style assault team, I’d be more forgiving of this type of response. However, the police search for armed fugitives all of the time, even ones that have killed police officers. Until that day, they didn’t absolutely turn upside down an entire town to find one. Now, I fear, it’s the new normal. I expect we will never see eye to eye on this. And with that, and some new duties at work, I’m apologize, but I’m going to have to beg off any further discussion with you all, and probably take a break from these Boards. See you all in a few months. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/58 "2013-04-27T01:38:13Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I expect the police to act as paid professionals. I’d say he did; he assessed the threat, realized it wasn’t one of the suspects, and didn’t shoot. He likely acted the way his professional training required him to act. > [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Again, this is one guy—armed and dangerous, yes—who also threw improvised explosives. He did not have an NBC weapon, and he was by himself. That is largely information we know now but was not obvious at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/59 "2013-04-27T02:28:15Z")
We should all consider ourselves lucky the bombing didn’t happen in LA. The cops wouldn’t walk you out of your house, they’d just open fire on your house. Since everyone was told to stay indoors, that makes everyone outside a valid target. How many kids in hoodies, how many people walking out of Walmart with their new cookware, would be bleeding on the streets? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495/60 "2013-04-27T12:12:39Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I’d say he did; he assessed the threat, realized it wasn’t one of the suspects, and didn’t shoot. He likely acted the way his professional training required him to act. A person looking out his own window is not a “threat” that needs assessing. Pointing a gun at this person is aggravated assault. I don’t disagree that the cops do a dangerous job, but that’s what they signed up for in policing a free country. You just can’t jerk everyone around in the name of your own safety. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/purported-video-of-evacuation-during-boston-bombing-search/656495.md?page=4)