# Push the limits of 'Freedom of Speech' here. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 24, 2007, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293 "2007-03-24T05:40:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/21 "2007-03-25T02:00:50Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] \ Oh, and by the way… “Booger.” [/QUOTE] Rock on! ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/22 "2007-03-25T02:04:19Z")
You may find a Biker Bar which you are free to enter. You may find a group of Hells Angels and call them pussies, as is your right. As to it being Free, that will have to wait to be seen. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/23 "2007-03-25T02:06:07Z")
[QUOTE=betenoir] Beyond the classic shouting fire, or the like, what would be the limits of free speech? I bought the Turner Diaries on Amazon, and I’ve sold Mein Kamph. Better to know the things you fellow humans are thinking than not. Now that you made the statement, what do you think are the limits to free speech? [/QUOTE] Well, there are laws against defamation and uttering threats. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/24 "2007-03-25T02:14:45Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] Well, there are laws against defamation and uttering threats. [/QUOTE] Good point. I’d agree with slander and libel. Shouting fire in a crowded thread. (has Manatee been picked up yet?) Filing false police reports. Not much else. ---
**Author:** ![Manatee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/50afbb/32.png) [@Manatee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manatee)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/25 "2007-03-25T04:08:18Z")
[QUOTE=betenoir] Good point. I’d agree with slander and libel. Shouting fire in a crowded thread. (has Manatee been picked up yet?) Filing false police reports. Not much else. [/QUOTE] Naw; I didn’t even get picked up when I DID yell “Fire!” in a theater. Of course, it wasn’t a crowded theater. It was just me and the two friends that I went with. We thought, when will we ever again get the chance to yell “Fire!” in a theater? So we went for it. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/26 "2007-03-25T06:15:59Z")
Doesn’t ‘Freedom of Speech’ in its most purely hypothetical form intrinsically mean there are no limits to what is said? If speech was 100%, no-holds-barred free, then you, me, or anyone else could say anything, anything at all. Debates, pleasantries, compliments, jokes, retorts, rebuttals, discussions, questions, trolling, hate-speech, and asshattery, in a completely free world there would be no limits. One could say things like President Bush rapes women and eats his love-children, or that Martin Luther King was a white honky from New Haven. In a 100% free world, in my amateur opinion, the sky is the limit. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/27 "2007-03-25T06:34:52Z")
Tell it to my NDA. ---
**Author:** ![fifty-six](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@fifty-six](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fifty-six)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/28 "2007-03-25T07:13:24Z")
This should be moved to Cafe Society ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/29 "2007-03-26T00:55:47Z")
[QUOTE=crinz83] I would have preferred this thread to be called “Be careful what you post here”, but I have no choice. [/QUOTE] I don’t understand. What exactly would have been the consequences of titling this thread “Be careful what you post here”? And why would you have preferred that title anyway? ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/30 "2007-03-26T02:11:34Z")
I’m pleased to say that I have been in a crowded theater when someone shouted “fire!” Contrary to general wisdom, this resulted in people quietly and responsibly putting the fire out. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/31 "2007-03-26T03:12:42Z")
I blame not only the jews, but gay marriage. and midgets. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/32 "2007-03-26T03:12:50Z")
If the system comprised by vBulletin running on whatever ServerOS the Chicago Reader server runs, and being accessed by our various browsers running on our various ClientOSs, etc, constitutes a system such that there are strings that can be entered into a Post Reply window that crash or misinstruct one or more of those systems, so that the post cannot be posted as intended & written, that would be a limit on freedom of speech as it pertains to this thread, yes? Gödel’s post! 🙂 I have accidentally created Gödel’s post a couple of times: • some combo of keystrokes inserts an invisible character that, when posted, truncates the post right at that point. Going back and backspacing over the 2-3 characters just after and just prior to the snipping point, then retyping them, and reposting, generally fixes the problem. (Of course in the days before the Edit Window of Opportunity that meant your initial truncated post would remain for posterity) • Some other combo (unless it’s random system-burp) has on rare occasion caused my posts to get interpreted as instructions to stick the raw HTML code of the entire freaking page into my post. Everything from the opening \ to the boilerplate at the bottom about republishing your own work. Now, if we had HTML interpreting turned on on this board, and the raw HTML had included my own current post as part of the page HTML, that could almost be something out of _Gödel, Escher, Bach_ — a Gödel post that is also an infinitely recursive and self-referential object! Now wouldn’t it be cute if it does one of those things in this very post? ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/33 "2007-03-26T03:25:23Z")
[Example of the latter](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=141005&page=2&pp=20). See post #31. ---
**Author:** ![Khampelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Khampelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khampelf)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/34 "2007-03-26T03:28:26Z")
What’s the worst part about sex with a two year old? That horrible snap when the pelvic bone breaks. There, envelope pushed. SLK has never had sex with a minor younger than he was at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/35 "2007-03-26T04:56:30Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] Doesn’t ‘Freedom of Speech’ in its most purely hypothetical form intrinsically mean there are no limits to what is said? If speech was 100%, no-holds-barred free, then you, me, or anyone else could say anything, anything at all. Debates, pleasantries, compliments, jokes, retorts, rebuttals, discussions, questions, trolling, hate-speech, and asshattery, in a completely free world there would be no limits. One could say things like President Bush rapes women and eats his love-children, or that Martin Luther King was a white honky from New Haven. In a 100% free world, in my amateur opinion, the sky is the limit. [/QUOTE] I know this is in MPSIMS, but this argument bothers me because the argument I hear on other message boards is that free speech is analogous to unmoderated message boards. I don’t buy it. > [@](#): > > The task, therefore, is not to argue for a “pure” unadulterated free speech; such a concept cannot be defended. . . > > Before we do this, however, the reader might wish to disagree with the claims made above and warn of the dangers of the “slippery slope.” The slippery slope argument is that we should not limit free speech because once we do we will slide our way into tyranny and censorship. Such arguments assume that we can be on or off the slope. In fact, no such choice exists: we are necessarily on the slope whether we like it or not, and the task is always to decide how far up or down we choose to go, not whether we should step off altogether. It is worth noting that the slippery slope argument can be used to make the opposite point; one could argue with equal force that we should never allow any removal of government involvement with the action of individuals because once we do we are on the slippery slope to anarchy, the state of nature, and a life that Hobbes described in Leviathan as “solitary, poore, nasty, brutish, and short” (1968, 186). [Freedom of Speech from Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy](http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freedom-speech/) If we’re going to make the analogy that the concept of free speech exists in the format of a message board, then the concepts of free speech should apply the same way they’re already applied in other areas. So the concept of “anything goes” doesn’t apply in other areas, so it shouldn’t apply on message boards. In addition, on message boards, the mods or owners have to somehow be analogous to government regulations or the analogy doesn’t work. And in every system where free speech is applied, there are governmental regulations which constrain speech allowing the concept to work. Without these regulations, the communications become “solitary, poore, [sic] nasty, brutish, and short.” And I think we’ve all seen that played out on some message boards. ---
**Author:** ![fifty-six](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@fifty-six](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fifty-six)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/36 "2007-03-26T06:58:32Z")
This thread should be moved to About This Message Board. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/37 "2007-03-26T07:43:58Z")
[QUOTE=fifty-six] This thread should be moved to About This Message Board. [/QUOTE] First Cafe Society, now ATMB? Make up your mind o\_o; ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/38 "2007-03-26T13:57:23Z")
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/39 "2007-03-26T19:58:10Z")
Hello! Let me tell you about some of my firm’s more mind-bogglingly complex but cost-effective life insurance products… ---
**Author:** ![fifty-six](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@fifty-six](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fifty-six)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2007, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293/40 "2007-03-27T00:32:35Z")
Please move this thread to The Pit so we can curse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/push-the-limits-of-freedom-of-speech-here/397293.md?page=3)