# Pushing c in Star Trek **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, star-trek-paramount\ **Created:** [September 11, 2023, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956 "2023-09-11T22:54:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/21 "2023-09-12T06:02:11Z")
My understanding is that the cases where Impulse went faster than light are due to mistakes or lack of care. Impulse is supposed to be slower than light. I Voyager’s technical manual, full impulse is stated to be 0.25c. I believe Zephram Cochrane does show that warp can be used for speeds less than c, but it would seem likely to be very inefficient. Whole number warp factors seem to be the most efficient. And this does not seem to cause time travel. Otherwise wlthey wouldn’t need more complex methods. ---
**Author:** ![dogbutler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogbutler/32/428_2.png) [@dogbutler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dogbutler)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/22 "2023-09-12T07:08:33Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > when they showed Khan instantly beaming from Earth to the Klingon home world. [Mixed fandom]Well if they routed the transporter matter stream through the Stargate they found in the old NORAD headquarters, it would work.[/mixed fandom] ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/23 "2023-09-12T09:46:50Z")
> [@Ponderoid](#): > > I’d have to look up a definitive list of script authors, but I know off the top of my head they include Theodore Sturgeon and Harlan Ellison. I remember seeing other big name authors but their names aren’t coming to mind at the moment. I’m making an educated guess that at least some of the writers knew the basics of relativity, even though they ignored it when writing their scripts. Some of these folks aren’t as well known now, but among the professional/published SF authors that wrote for the original series: Jerome Bixby Robert Bloch Harlan Ellison DC Fontana David Gerrold Norman Spinrad Theodore Sturgeon At least, those are the ones I’d consider “real” SF authors. And yes, for the most part they knew something of physics and the size of space but while they might have written the bones of a story they didn’t have complete control over the scripts and the final product. Harlan Ellison was quite eloquent about his feelings regarding the “butchering” of his story “The City on the Edge of Forever”, and David Gerrold wrote an entire book (The Making of “Trouble With Tribbles”) about all the changes his initial story/script went through prior to being broadcast. Even if a writer had said “hey, this violates the laws of physics” there was a strong possibility of being overruled by the people running the show. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/24 "2023-09-12T10:27:51Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > 63 days on the _Columbia_ turned into 12 years of passage in the real world. Which sort of begs the question of why in 12 years did the Federation never bother to look for their lost ship? We all know space is really really big. But short of getting shot through a wormhole or plot singularity or whatever, it’s not clear to me how Star Trek ships sometimes get so far from the rest of Federation space they can’t be found. Also light speed is pretty freakin slow IRL. It would take like 5 hours to get from the Earth to Pluto at light speed and that’s not even leaving the solar system. How big is Federation space relative to the rest of the Milky Way anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/25 "2023-09-12T10:30:21Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Which sort of begs the question of why in 12 years did the Federation never bother to look for their lost ship? Just a WAG but based on the careful way @ekedolphin worded their post, I’m guessing there was a search. I wasn’t going to ask because spoilers. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/26 "2023-09-12T10:35:47Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > [In] Voyager’s technical manual, full impulse is stated to be 0.25c. In TOS, references were made to quarter-speed, half-speed, and (I believe) three-quarters speed, before going to warp 1. These were presumably 0.25, 0.50, 0.75, and 1.0 c. _ **The Making of Star Trek** _ (p. 191) states unequivocally that warp 1 is the speed of light. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/27 "2023-09-12T11:12:10Z")
As I understand the physics, as an object approaches the speed of light, its observed mass becomes infinitely large. As a result, an infinite amount of energy is required to make an object move at the speed of light. So, to travel at even 80% of the speed of light, the energy needed is prodigious. Warp technology, however, attains speed by warping space instead. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/28 "2023-09-12T11:16:37Z")
What I want to know is, how do the “inertia dampeners” function at sublight speeds? And how come the crew isn’t reduced to strawberry jam when they go “offline,” as happens often in _ **Voyager** _? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/29 "2023-09-12T11:23:32Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > How big is Federation space relative to the rest of the Milky Way anyway? Apparently Picard says in First Contact that it “spreads out across 8,000 light years”, which is sort of like answering what Missouri looks like on a map by saying that it encompasses millions of acres. In the real world, the Milky Way is about 100,000 light years from end to end. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/30 "2023-09-12T11:24:11Z")
They function so that the writers’ imaginations and episode plots can develop uninhibited. LoL A more useful and interesting answer may be found in what I found to be a very well written book, [**The Physics of Star Trek**](https://www.amazon.com/Physics-Star-Trek-Lawrence-Krauss/dp/0465002048). I think it is well worth the read. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/31 "2023-09-12T11:25:31Z")
Front door to back! ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/32 "2023-09-12T11:33:51Z")
It appears that relative time travel affects of high speed travel in ST has been moved from c to Warp 10 in the newer warp scale introduced in STTNG. And for all Star Trek the engines have always moved the ship at the speed of script, and not anything related to physics. So with both of these factors the magic that happens at c IRC is changed to warp 10 (or some anomaly), and diminishing the importance of c to the point of irrelevance. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/33 "2023-09-12T12:49:59Z")
Just chiming in to say that relativistic effects are sort of acknowledged. In TNG, the episode with Kelsey Grammer I believe, they reference checking a “time beacon”(I’m pretty sure that was the exact term used). To me this implies at least, the recognition of the effects of traveling at relativistic speeds. Unless time loops are more common in the star trek universe than is let on. It’s the only mention of “time beacons” I know of so… for what its worth and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/34 "2023-09-12T12:54:11Z")
We’ve got “time beacons” in the here and now, in the form of cell towers and the GPS navigation system; he was just referring to one of many functions their navigation buoys provide. [/fanwank] ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/35 "2023-09-12T14:39:20Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > unequivocally that warp 1 is the speed of light. Which anybody with a functioning brain\* just _has_ to disregard that. Case in point, The Galileo 7. If the Enterprise was warping away form the plantet at c\*\*, then their sensors would show _no change_ on the planet. They couldn’t see the G7 dump its fuel and ignite it, because they were moving away at the same speed the image was hitting them. Also, you’d never get anywhere! Four years to reach the nearest star, what(?) twelve to reach Vulcan. Which writer said it?: an interstellar ship’s maximum speed is it’s only speed. Why go slower? \*Hollywood writers exempted \*\* also disregarding the reality that you can’t in real space, so just figure “warp speed of light” is different than “normal space speed of light” ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/36 "2023-09-12T14:42:57Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > In the real world, the Milky Way is about 100,000 light years from end to end. Eric Idle put it [much nicer.](https://youtu.be/yq4uCWtQE24) ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/37 "2023-09-12T14:52:24Z")
I don’t make these things up, I just parrot them. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/38 "2023-09-12T14:55:51Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I don’t make these things up Oh, I know that! Just using your post as a starting point. I have my own “head canon” about how warp drive and more importantly the transporters work. It makes it more enjoyable than fighting the writers’ “ignorance in service of plot.” ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/39 "2023-09-12T14:58:49Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Forget about ever getting anything that makes the remotest trace of sense in Trek physics. The writers seem go know or care nothing about it. The writers did put “Heisenberg Compensators” as a component of transporters in a nod to one of the physics problems a transporter would have. Of course, the Heisenberg compensator was never explained and essentially magic but they were thinking about it a little. > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Ships on impulse already travel at high multiples of light speed, for example. Yeah. We see this a lot when they are in the Sol System (Earth). A Borg cube flies by the “Mars Defense Perimeter,” blasts some little ships then flies to earth in a few more minutes. All seemingly at sub-light speed. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956/40 "2023-09-12T15:01:13Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Of course, the Heisenberg compensator was never explained and essentially magic but they were thinking about it a little. Was it Michael Okuda that, when asked how the Heisenberg Compensators work, replied, “very well, thank you”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-c-in-star-trek/989956.md?page=3)