# Pushing for total metric in the US: is a foolish consistency the hobgoblin of a small mind? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 5, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017 "2015-08-05T00:02:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/21 "2015-08-05T05:17:33Z")
I will say measuring by volume is superior to weight in terms of convenience, as you can use measuring cups (dip, toss in bowl) as opposed to weighing things on a scale (dip, put in receptacle on scale, adjust weight, toss in bowl). ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/22 "2015-08-05T06:13:48Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Can you explain how this is a First Amendment right? I put several examples in the post you quoted from! Book publishing, product labels, etc. > [@Aeschines](#): > > I will say measuring by volume is superior to weight in terms of convenience, as you can use measuring cups (dip, toss in bowl) as opposed to weighing things on a scale (dip, put in receptacle on scale, adjust weight, toss in bowl). I prefer recipes by weight because they’re more convenient for me, actually. I don’t use a separate receptacle. If I’m making some type of dough (caution: not real recipe), I’ll add flour to the mixer bowl until it’s 250 g, tare, add 2.5 g of salt, tare, 3 g of yeast, tare, and then 100 g of tepid water. I have a little cross reference posted to my refrigerator for certain ingredients, such as conversion of “sticks” of butter to grams. Oh, and I don’t find it ironic at all that I prefer to use metric cooking instructions despite not supporting any specific means of “converting” the USA to metric. It works for me without inconveniencing others, and the metric system is superior, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/23 "2015-08-05T06:21:40Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I prefer recipes by weight because they’re more convenient for me, actually. I don’t use a separate receptacle. If I’m making some type of dough (caution: not real recipe), I’ll add flour to the mixer bowl until it’s 250 g, tare, add 2.5 g of salt, tare, 3 g of yeast, tare, and then 100 g of tepid water. Ah, I see! That makes sense. I still think some of these recipes are weird though. I saw this one British recipe, and they’re like specifying chili powder and garlic in grams. Really, such anal precision only makes sense in baking. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/24 "2015-08-05T06:38:42Z")
Celsius vs Fahrenheit is no big deal, both are equally OK. But the arguments I see in this thread (and past ones here on the SDMB) that Fahrenheit is inherently better/more intuitive are some of the most ignorant arguments I have seen on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![RobDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f07891/32.png) [@RobDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobDog)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/25 "2015-08-05T07:04:53Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Ah, I see! That makes sense. > > I still think some of these recipes are weird though. I saw this one British recipe, and they’re like specifying chili powder and garlic in grams. Really, such anal precision only makes sense in baking. I agree that’s weird, but it’s more a shortcoming of the recipe compiler - who has used wholely inappropriate units - than the metric system. Have just looked through a few (British) recipe books on my shelf, and find, for example (not all from the same recipe!): 1 stalk lemongrass 2 tsp chilli powder 1 tbsp sugar 2 cloves garlic 1 large onion 1 large handful coriander Juice and zest of 1 lemon 500ml vegetable stock 25g butter 1kg flour 125g caster sugar So a decent recipe compiler will use appropriate units, whether they be imperial or metric volume or weight. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/26 "2015-08-05T07:11:01Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > But the arguments I see in this thread (and past ones here on the SDMB) that Fahrenheit is inherently better/more intuitive are some of the most ignorant arguments I have seen on the SDMB. Care to explain what’s “ignorant”? Doesn’t that imply some sort of lack of knowledge or understanding of critical issues? ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/27 "2015-08-05T07:13:03Z")
> [@RobDog](#): > > I agree that’s weird, but it’s more a shortcoming of the recipe compiler - who has used wholely inappropriate units - than the metric system. Right on. Again, though, I am not saying that there is any flaw in using the metric system in such a case. I would certainly rather use g than oz. in such a case! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/28 "2015-08-05T08:20:45Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I put several examples in the post you quoted from! Book publishing, product labels, etc. It seemed like you were reaching with that. Still seems that way to me. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/29 "2015-08-05T10:11:54Z")
0°C = Freezing 10°C = Cold 20°C = Pleasant 30°C = Hot 40°C = Unbearable Works for me very neatly. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/30 "2015-08-05T11:06:53Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > 0°C = Freezing > 10°C = Cold > 20°C = Pleasant > 30°C = Hot > 40°C = Unbearable > > Works for me very neatly. You really thought that way in the past, or did you just make that up? 0° is literally freezing, but its not “freezing” in the sense of being all that cold outside. So your 0° and 10° decades are both different degrees of “cold.” I think 18-19° both fit into “pleasant”–matter of opinion. But I think 28-29° are already pretty objectively out of “pleasant” and into “hot.” Calling the 30° decade just “hot” seems misleading as well. 34-35° is already “unbearable” for most people. From my experience in Japan, people using Celsius _do_ tend to think in terms of some groupings, but they are rougher than what you’ve described and not neat decades. Yeah, 30° is a good starting point for “hot.” Anything below 0° is treated as really cold because Tokyo winters are milder and snow doesn’t fall much almost never sticks. Plus, OMG, it’s “mainasu!” 0-15° is vaguely sort of chilly, 15-25° is vaguely sort of OK, and 25° and up is vaguely sort of not. The fact of the matter is that the 20s crosses into hot territory, so it’s not very useful, and the 10s goes from windbreaker to shirt sleeves, so it’s not that useful either. Of course, the system is usable and people will make do and learn to talk about the various temps in the most convenient way they can. But it simply has zero advantages over F in talking about the weather, and I think it has clear disadvantages. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/31 "2015-08-05T12:12:18Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > NBut I do think the granularity of C is shyte, and the need to use decimals _is_ a palpable disadvantage. I don’t see why you would need to use decimals. I’m perfectly happy with being told it’s 27° C outside. I don’t need more precision, and I don’t think I ever use decimals (or hear people using decimals) for temperatures. Temperatures are given without decimals on TV, on internet, etc… For the rest, I think like others that you just find more convenient what you’re used to. I’m not sure in what objective way measuring in inches is better than mesuring in centimeters, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/32 "2015-08-05T12:18:28Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > 22-35° C, just 13°, goes from a comfortable 72 °F to a blistering 95 °F. To me, it’s too small. > > The decades of F also reflect human comfort levels pretty well: > > 50s: Cool > > 60s: Cooly comfortable > > 70s: Ideal comfort, room temp > > 80s: Hottish > > 90s: Uncomfortably hot > > 100+: Fuggedaboutit > > Sure, it’s kinda arbitrary, but that’s how humans think. The decades of Celsius are too cramped for this kind of thinking. No, that’s how YOU think. All you (YOU, specifically) really need is 10 degrees on YOUR temperature scale. Why the need to differentiate between 55 and 56? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/33 "2015-08-05T12:21:55Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I will say measuring by volume is superior to weight in terms of convenience, as you can use measuring cups (dip, toss in bowl) as opposed to weighing things on a scale (dip, put in receptacle on scale, adjust weight, toss in bowl). I use a measuring cup graduated in weights and volumes. Fill it up here, it’s 100 grams of floor, fill it up there, it’s 200 mililiters of milk, fill it up there it’s 50 grams of sugar, etc… Butter is the only common product that I can’t measure this way, but the butter packages themselves are graduated by weight, so it’s not an issue Most of more uncommon products are measured in quantities : two heads of garlic, 3 eggs, 5 tomatoes, etc… For those who aren’t, I guesstimate : 100 grams of walnuts is a bit less than half the 250 grams package of walnuts I have, and so on… I never use a scale. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/34 "2015-08-05T12:39:38Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > No, that’s how YOU think. All you (YOU, specifically) really need is 10 degrees on YOUR temperature scale. Why the need to differentiate between 55 and 56? Are you kidding?! _Brooklyn_ Dodgers in 55, Yankees in 56! And Giants in 54. Three different NYC teams in three years! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/35 "2015-08-05T12:41:50Z")
Fahrenheit works fine for the range of environmental temperatures in the temperate zone. It can get down to 0 on the coldest of days and up to 100 on the hottest of days. What good is a range from -17.7778 to 37.7778? And boiling water is only 100 degrees? Boiling water is really really hot, it’s gotta be at least 200 degrees on a useful scale. ---
**Author:** ![RobDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f07891/32.png) [@RobDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobDog)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/36 "2015-08-05T12:48:51Z")
The only thing I have any trouble understanding is how anyone can’t work out, with incredible ease, what is a very cold, cold, mild, hot or very hot day in _either_ system. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/37 "2015-08-05T12:50:46Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > You really thought that way in the past, or did you just make that up? > > 0° is literally freezing, but its not “freezing” in the sense of being all that cold outside. So your 0° and 10° decades are both different degrees of “cold.” > > I think 18-19° both fit into “pleasant”–matter of opinion. Yes, indeed, it’s a matter of opinion and mostly depends on the climate you’re accustomed to. For me too, 0° C is freezing (besides conveniently meaning also : “ice forming!”). My local extremes would be between -10°C and 40°C, and anything below zero means that I’m going to find the wheather unpleasantly cold (in fact, anything below 10°C is too cold). You seem to argue that a 100° scale for “common temperatures” is better. Even assuming that this scale fits your local climate, I strongly doubt you can go out and tell me if it’s rather 72°F or 73°F . Very probably not even if it’s 72°F or 75°F. In fact, people using °F seem to often say things like “the temperature is in the 70s”. So, I’m not sure why you feel the need for such a large scale and such specific points on it (temperature in °F or decimals in °C). ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/38 "2015-08-05T12:54:20Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > • Cooking measurements in cups and tablespoons isn’t going away simply because it works well–very well. I cook a lot and bake too. Trying to convert all that to ml and grams would just be anal-retentive nonsense. Working with overseas recipes I get online in grams forces me to get out my gram scale–no biggie, but it’s an extra step. I can get around a lot of what you said, but not this. Volume measurements for cooking are horrible in almost all cases. The one case I _can_ get around is stuff like spices - 1/4 t. of cumin or whatever pretty much doesn’t weigh enough that it makes sense to go by weight. Everything else? Bring on the grams. Not only is it WAY easier to divide or multiply (want to go 1.5 times a recipe? What can you do faster - 3/4 of a cup \* 1.5 or 150 grams \* 1.5? I know which is easier for me) but it’s also more accurate. “A cup of diced onions” is entirely dependent on how you dice them. “500 grams of diced onions” is not. Don’t even get me started on things like flour. But the real advantage is NO MEASURING CUPS. I don’t have to dig through the drawer to find the 1/3 cup measuring cup, nor do I have to wash it. I put a bowl on the scale, add my 75 grams of whatever, zero the scale out. Then add my 200 grams of whatever #2, zero the scale out. Rinse and repeat. I, for one, would gladly give up every volume measurement I have if I could get every cookbook and recipe publisher to redo their books in grams. WAY easier. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/39 "2015-08-05T13:36:05Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > You really thought that way in the past, or did you just make that up? > > 0° is literally freezing, but its not “freezing” in the sense of being all that cold outside. So your 0° and 10° decades are both different degrees of “cold.” > > I think 18-19° both fit into “pleasant”–matter of opinion. > > But I think 28-29° are already pretty objectively out of “pleasant” and into “hot.” > > Calling the 30° decade just “hot” seems misleading as well. 34-35° is already “unbearable” for most people. > > From my experience in Japan, people using Celsius _do_ tend to think in terms of some groupings, but they are rougher than what you’ve described and not neat decades. Yeah, 30° is a good starting point for “hot.” Anything below 0° is treated as really cold because Tokyo winters are milder and snow doesn’t fall much almost never sticks. Plus, OMG, it’s “mainasu!” 0-15° is vaguely sort of chilly, 15-25° is vaguely sort of OK, and 25° and up is vaguely sort of not. > > The fact of the matter is that the 20s crosses into hot territory, so it’s not very useful, and the 10s goes from windbreaker to shirt sleeves, so it’s not that useful either. > > Of course, the system is usable and people will make do and learn to talk about the various temps in the most convenient way they can. But it simply has zero advantages over F in talking about the weather, and I think it has clear disadvantages. What the holy heck are you talking about? Your desperate attempt at justification is starting to make you go a bit doolally. Nothing you have said here makes a lick of sense. I’m not defining absolutes in rigid specific grades, I’m generally describing how you apply Celsius to the temperateness of the climate. You can change the descriptions relative to your own tastes and whichever country you live in, but for me freezing is freezing - 0°C is when snow is likely to fall, 30°C is when I start to sweat in direct sunlight. Your own kilometerage may vary. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017/40 "2015-08-05T13:44:51Z")
I agree that Fahrenheit is a far better guide to temperature in everyday use. Hell, it _ **is** _ metric in effect: a hundred point scale of the temperatures most people deal with. Would metric proponents use a 37.778-point scale to measure anything? So why use that for temperature? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pushing-for-total-metric-in-the-us-is-a-foolish-consistency-the-hobgoblin-of-a-small-mind/727017.md?page=3)