# Put down that PB&J sandwich, you racist! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 22, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554 "2013-11-22T19:13:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/41 "2013-11-22T22:26:40Z")
What if they have Oreos for dessert? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/42 "2013-11-22T22:27:32Z")
> [@James\_Toothpaste](#): > > Peanut butter and jelly is NOT racist. Do you read threads before commenting in them? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/43 "2013-11-22T22:28:40Z")
Surely the point is that no one of us is center of the universe, and if we assume that what’s familiar to us is familiar to everyone, we’re wrong. Seems pretty unobjectionable. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/44 "2013-11-22T22:37:58Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > No but you are anti-pig. Nah, pigs will gobble up bacon too. And seriously, regatta? What’s that, some sort of fancy party? (Is what I’d imagine most Americans regardless of color, class, or creed would say) ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/45 "2013-11-22T22:41:25Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > ETA: I found the [original article](http://portlandtribune.com/pt/9-news/114604-schools-beat-the-drum-for-equity), its not much more helpful that the one in the OP but probably a little less preachy See, that’s the problem with all the reblogging that goes on with news stories. In the original link it says > [@](#): > > According to the Portland Tribune, Verenice Gutierrez, principal of Harvey Scott K-8 School, “picks up on the subtle language of racism” on a daily basis. > > “Take the peanut butter sandwich, a seemingly innocent example a teacher used in a lesson last school year,” the Tribune said. The way it’s quoted, it sounds like the principal is the one saying PBJ is racist. But she doesn’t say that, the paper does. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/46 "2013-11-23T00:52:44Z")
> [@Mithras](#): > > According to the original article that the more-than-a-year-old article linked to in the OP referred to, 50% of the students in the school are Hispanic and about 25% are white. With numbers like that, it does seem likely that a significant number of the students would not be familiar with peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. > . And how many kids in any school where some other kid brings a lunch is not going to see them eating a sandwich - or for that matter wouldn’t understand \ sandwich. Any kid in the US school system will learn what a sandwich is, the name of the filling is pretty inessential if they are using it for fractions. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Actually, I don’t even see an objection to PB&J, or to its use in a lesson. The Examiner is an incredibly annoying (and annoyingly-written) website., but here’s what it says: > The objection, such as it is, is to teaching a lesson of some sort using only PB&J as an example, without using other lunch items. > > And that’s a totally fair objection. If you’re trying to teach fractions, for example, you’d like kids to be focused on that particular concept. For a kid who’s eaten a ton of PB&J sandwiches, they don’t have to spend any cognitive power on figuring out what a PB&J is; they can focus their mental energy on seeing how you can cut the sandwich in different ways and still get two halves. > > But a kid who’s unfamiliar with PB&J’s will spend part of their brainpower on figuring out what the sandwich is. They’re learning about the sandwich at the same time that they learn about fractions. It’s a fluency issue, and it can distract them from the math, especially if the teacher doesn’t explicitly explain what’s going on in the sandwich. > > I’m not sure if I’m explaining this well, but as a teacher I try to be aware of issues like this in my classroom. You can’t assume that an experience is universal, and if kids need to understand an idea in order to grok the lesson, you explain that idea, even if it’s something as “innocent” as what a PB&J is. Why do you assume that anybody on this earth who is inundated with American movies, TV programming, books, magazines and newspapers would not understand Thanksgiving Dinner? Charlie Brown, The Addams Family, any random thing set in the end of November, most TV shows … all of them show thanksgiving in some way or another. Once you actually _get_ into the US, even if you don’t speak English, you get inundated on Telemundo commercials, translated movies, translated TV, Mexican oriented radio stations, Puerto Rican based radio stations, hell, Miami is filled with Spanish language advertising about Thanksgiving … ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/47 "2013-11-23T01:00:17Z")
From the original article, underlines mine: > [@moron cubed](#): > > “What about Somali or Hispanic students, who might not eat sandwiches?” Gutierrez asked. “Another way would be to say: ‘Americans eat peanut butter and jelly, do you have anything like that?’ Let them tell you. Maybe they eat torta. Or pita.” So, apparently this Hispanic person thinks Hispanics are not American and that all Americans eat the same way (“if you’re allergic to peanut, you’re not a true American”?). She schmott. ---
**Author:** ![Mithras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mithras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithras)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/48 "2013-11-23T02:57:32Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > And how many kids in any school where some other kid brings a lunch is not going to see them eating a sandwich - or for that matter wouldn’t understand \ sandwich. Any kid in the US school system will learn what a sandwich is, the name of the filling is pretty inessential if they are using it for fractions. First, I don’t know how many kids in a typical K-8 school with the demographics described in the article don’t know what a peanut butter and jelly sandwich is. I’d be surprised if that number were zero, though. You kind of acknowledge that by stating that a kid will eventually learn what a sandwich is by watching their classmates. If the lesson came before they learned it by watching a classmate, the lesson will be confusing. Second, the only relevance that portions of fractions has to do with this is that someone in this thread brought it up as an example of a way that the sandwich could have been used in the lesson at issue. We do not know that that had anything to do with what the principal was talking about. That’s the problem with this outrage. You have to assume that the school is making a big deal about a trivial issue without any reason to believe that the deal was big or the issue was trivial. I guess you could take the inflammatory article’s word for it. But who the hell is the article’s author that their speculation has any more weight than ours? ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/49 "2013-11-23T03:06:23Z")
Privilege lawfully bestowed is not a crime. When will idiots stop inventing racist and PC issues? ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/50 "2013-11-23T15:11:02Z")
> [@Dendarii\_Dame](#): > > When I was in elementary school, I read a Nancy Drew novel in which she enters a regatta (and that is the word used) with a boat called _Whip the Wind_. I can’t remember which one, though. I’ll try to find out, though. My husband (Andy L) found it. It was the 1947 edition of **The Clue in the Old Album**. (This plot is not in the updated edition.) It was a sailing regatta, and Nancy and her friends were racing a much newer, fancier boat called _Lass_, crewed by a bunch of mean girls. Nancy and her friends won, because of course they did. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/51 "2013-11-23T15:30:19Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > Any well-written test is going to contain questions not every student will necessarily know. If it didn’t, everyone in the class would get 100% every time, and you’d have no way to distinguish levels of material mastery. > > Also, I grew up in a rural area of a completely landlocked state and still knew what a regatta was. My Scout troop got some of those little balsa boats from the local Boy Scouts when they had theirs, but I can’t remember if I knew the word before then or not. I usually agree with you on lots of things, **CrazyCatLady** , but I think you’re missing the point in this post. Remember when we were talking about “crudités” and you said that since you learned it way back in middle school home economics class, it’s a perfectly everyday, regular word that everyone should probably know? (I have a good memory. Shoot me.) Well, just like not everyone took home economics, not everyone was in the Scouts or “got some of those little balsa boats” when they were little kids. The fact that you remember exactly when you first came across those terms indicates that they are closer to “special” than “regular, everyday.” I’m all for people increasing their vocabulary whenever and wherever they can. But kids shouldn’t be penalized for not having all certain experiences growing up. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/52 "2013-11-23T15:42:49Z")
I just came in to say that I don’t like peanut butter and so I don’t eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. And I’m also not racist. So, take that for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/53 "2013-11-23T16:59:28Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > As I read the article, the school is suggesting not that a PB&J sandwich is “racist” but that it’s not part of everyone’s culture. Supposedly, there was an SAT question something like this: > Runner is to marathon as oarsman is to [multiple choices]. The correct answer was regatta, but that assumes a level of familiarity with rowing terms, which some inner-city or rural kids might lack. > [@monstro](#): > > I usually agree with you on lots of things, **CrazyCatLady** , but I think you’re missing the point in this post. > > Remember when we were talking about “crudités” and you said that since you learned it way back in middle school home economics class, it’s a perfectly everyday, regular word that everyone should probably know? (I have a good memory. Shoot me.) > > Well, just like not everyone took home economics, not everyone was in the Scouts or “got some of those little balsa boats” when they were little kids. The fact that you remember exactly when you first came across those terms indicates that they are closer to “special” than “regular, everyday.” > > I’m all for people increasing their vocabulary whenever and wherever they can. But kids shouldn’t be penalized for not having all certain experiences growing up. No, but when you are testing someone’s knowledge of English vocabulary you shouldn’t just pick easy words that they come across everyday. I will probably die without coming close to a regatta. But somewhere along the way I picked the word up because I read. The same with a lot of other words. And there are plenty of words that I don’t know. Which is one reason why I scored well but not perfect. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/54 "2013-11-23T16:59:53Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The fact that you remember exactly when you first came across those terms indicates that they are closer to “special” than "regular, everyday. Actually, I’m fairly sure I pointed out in both situations that I don’t really remember whether those were my first exposures to the terms or not–just that I for sure was exposed to them in those settings. I read a lot of Nancy Drew books as a kid and may have read the one mentioned earlier (many of them contained similar “Nancy and Crew outclass Snobby Bitches” situations, so it’s hard to say.)\* I read a lot of other stuff as a kid and may have run across it in some other book. I might have had it as a spelling or vocabulary word. Then again, I might not have–it was all more than 20 years ago, and it wasn’t exactly a big deal, ya know? And seriously, the point of the analogies on the SAT is twofold–to test how well you understand relationships, and to test your vocabulary. That’s why they have so many different levels of each on the test, from basic relationships and second-grade vocabulary on up to really obscure relationships and vocabulary you’d need to have eaten a dictionary to know, and they get as many permutations of both in there as they can. (A permutation is a possible way to combine things, in case my cultural bias is showing. 😉 ) \*The only word I can say for sure I learned from Nancy Drew books was “bussed” in the sense of a kiss. The book said one of the guys “bussed her on the cheek” and I was all :eek: “He hit her in the face with a bus?! That can’t be right!” ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/55 "2013-11-23T17:55:30Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Privilege lawfully bestowed is not a crime. > > When will idiots stop inventing racist and PC issues? The idiots are the ones taking a suggestion we make sure we have some awareness of our culturally references, so it doesn’t systematically (if non-intentionally) exclude recent immigrant children from varying cultures, thus impeding their learning. The **idiots** are the ones who spun this into “someone called a PBJ racist! How PC!” And who don’t read critically to see how the story was spun. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/56 "2013-11-23T19:48:59Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Why do you assume that anybody on this earth who is inundated with American movies, TV programming, books, magazines and newspapers would not understand Thanksgiving Dinner? Charlie Brown, The Addams Family, any random thing set in the end of November, most TV shows … all of them show thanksgiving in some way or another. Once you actually _get_ into the US, even if you don’t speak English, you get inundated on Telemundo commercials, translated movies, translated TV, Mexican oriented radio stations, Puerto Rican based radio stations, hell, Miami is filled with Spanish language advertising about Thanksgiving … What the what? What does this have to do with what I wrote? Edit: wait, do you eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for your Thanksgiving dinner? ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/57 "2013-11-23T20:15:35Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > Go ahead and name some books that inner-city or rural kids might read that would familiarize them with rowing terms. :smack: dictionary, thesaurus,encyclopedia. all books that I spent a bit of time looking at when I was in grade school. Didn’t read them per se but looked at them quite a bit. To say we we middle class would be just a small stretch I don’t think my mom made that much money. And was suburban not inner city or rural. ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/58 "2013-11-23T21:22:45Z")
Yeesh! I have to wonder what Latino neighborhood the principal is hanging out in. For that matter, what kind of any ethnic neighborhood. IME, in living in culturally diverse parts of town, food differences are the first things immigrants pick up on, partially because a good share of the first and second generation work in the biz. Teaching involves introducing new concepts to students, not just staying in a very limited-but -familiar area. Yes, the school system should be aware of cultural differences that may challenge the references used in teaching, but they also should challenge students to expand their horizons. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/59 "2013-11-23T22:25:09Z")
On a related note how happy would you be to receive this letter from your childs school in the post? > **[Head teacher apologises over 'racial discrimination' letter](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-25066688)** > > A head teacher apologises to parents for saying children not going on a school trip could be given a "racial discrimination" note. Why are schools such a battleground of competing ideologies? I think part of the problem is that these days schools are expected to not just educate children but to actually raise them in lieu of parents actually doing that traditional job. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554/60 "2013-11-23T22:35:26Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > Why are schools such a battleground of competing ideologies? I think part of the problem is that these days schools are expected to not just educate children but to actually raise them in lieu of parents actually doing that traditional job. But public schools used to commonly practice religion and spank kids, so I don’t know about “these days”. I don’t think you can really separate “raising” from “educating” anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-down-that-pb-j-sandwich-you-racist/674554.md?page=4)