# Put her back in the closet **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 21, 2017, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858 "2017-09-21T04:46:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/21 "2017-09-21T18:26:12Z")
> [@Patx2](#): > > What was the time frame on all of this? It sounds like one day she tells you she has a crush on another girl and the next day she tells school she now identifies as a male. These are separate things. She might be a lesbian, or bi, or heterosexual and just have a same sex attraction right now. ^This. Fact: Where one falls on the Kinsey (sexual orientation) scale and gender are 2 completely different things. Conjecture: While being in the minority of either can be difficult, I suspect that gender dysphoria presents more - and more serious - mental, physical and emotional pitfalls. While some individuals can certainly successfully deal with orientation issues on their own or with the help of friends and family, gender dysphoria will virtually always require outside, professional help to successfully deal with the issues involved - regardless of the age of the person. At 12, IMHO, the ideal path should go from family to professional therapist to public profession/accommodation. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/22 "2017-09-21T19:32:08Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > I would seriously reexamine the idea that 12-year-olds don’t know. As others have said, there have been plenty of threads where people have known they are LGBTQ from even earlier. I once asked a middle-aged friend when he knew or realized he was gay, and without hesitation he said there was no such moment - by the time he reached puberty he was already attracted to boys/men. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/23 "2017-09-21T19:39:54Z")
(If he was your son, swooning over the 11 yr old girl next door, I doubt you’d question either his sexual self determination, or his age worthiness to know his own mind!) Your real issue is that he has taken full ownership of his sexuality at twelve. And he unequivocally has, whether you’re ready or not, I’m afraid. Understand, I’m not saying you’re wrong, it is entirely possibly he’s just going through something and it will shift again. You should look really hard at why you choose to believe that, and how much asking him to be discreet is about you and not him. I should think any parent might easily be blinded by what’s really driving what they feel in their gut. It takes a lot of self awareness, in fact, to even consider that perhaps your view is not so clear as you believe. I mean, does he seem unready? Or is it you that’s unready? But regardless, I’m afraid the really hard truth is you cannot take back his ownership of his sexuality from him. All efforts in that direction seem to me, destined to failure and run the risk of solidifying, via defiant reaction, the very lifestyle you’re hoping he _doesn’t_ ‘choose’. (Whether you can see that, or not.) I realize that’s a lot to unpack, but you’re going to have to up YOUR game in the calm and withdrawn department I suspect. You said you supported him. I believe you meant that from your heart. Now comes the hard part. You’re either going to live that as true, or demonstrate how it’s actually not. I know your fear is he must face a harsh world, and, again, you’re not wrong. But he seems to be facing his part of this struggle/journey head on. He seems to know where he’s headed. Any attempt to diminish that is gonna break his heart. He seems up for whatever lies ahead on the journey he’s on. You need to be doing some rapid catching up, I’m afraid. Because you seem to want to start the journey you’ve chosen, ('We support you!"), by trying to slam on the breaks, keep things hush-hush, and discrediting his authority. It turns out he needs your support NOW. Right now. Not when you’re more comfortable. Have had time to process. Have doubled checked its real. Waited till he’s older. I fully believe your moment is RIGHT NOW! Choose your course carefully. Wishing your entire family Good Luck. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/24 "2017-09-21T20:02:42Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I guarantee you that the warm, immediate, unflinching embrace of their parents is what children will remember forever after and model themselves on later in life, regardless of whether they were making a childish mistake at the time or not. Perhaps ESPECIALLY if they were making a childish mistake. See above. If you demonstrate doubt in your child’s judgment now, even if this turns out to be a phase, they aren’t going to look back and think “you know, my parents were right.” Instead they will only remember that you didn’t believe them. There’s so little downside in accepting what they are telling you, and helping them explore so they can figure it out for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/25 "2017-09-21T20:35:23Z")
I think that while you need to be supportive, you also can’t cater to every whim your kid has. They are at school to learn, not explore and exhibit gender/sexuality. This isn’t of course something you can talk them out of, but maybe dampen/delay it a bit. A 12-year-old is very malleable and this may or may not be a phase. I think people search for identities and this may just be one they fell into. It definitely seems to be encouraged online quite a bit. And like my friend decreed with her daughter, no medical/physical changes before they are 18. If they are an adult and decide they want to start getting surgeries/hormones/whatever, that is their decision. I suppose people have felt not right in their birth gender for a long time now, but they just never felt like they could bring it up or deviate too much from their gender norm. I suppose it’s better they can be more open about it now, but we are a looong way from figuring out what is appropriate/safe and at what age. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/26 "2017-09-21T20:45:49Z")
I know I’m going to be called all kinds of names on this one but personally, unless they have clear hormonal, biological, issues (diagnosed by a doctor) I think this stuff is just in their heads and no way would I support a 12 year old on this. Heck most kids go thru a gay/bi/trans phase about that age. Now if they are 18, that’s different. Yes I know everything today says just support them but I beg to differ. YOUR the adults in the room. YOU have your values, Hollywood has theirs. No rule says you as a parent must support everything your kid does. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/27 "2017-09-21T20:55:39Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Heck most kids go thru a gay/bi/trans phase about that age. Bullshit. > [@](#): > > Now if they are 18, that’s different. If you’re going to pick an arbitrary age, pick 25. At least by then their brain will have mostly finished developing. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/28 "2017-09-21T21:03:23Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I know I’m going to be called all kinds of names on this one but personally, unless they have clear hormonal, biological, issues (diagnosed by a doctor) I think this stuff is just in their heads and no way would I support a 12 year old on this. Heck most kids go thru a gay/bi/trans phase about that age. > > Now if they are 18, that’s different. > > Yes I know everything today says just support them but I beg to differ. YOUR the adults in the room. YOU have your values, Hollywood has theirs. > > No rule says you as a parent must support everything your kid does. Most 12-year-olds go through a “gay/bi/trans” phase? Have a cite for that? Did you know you were straight and cis at 12? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/29 "2017-09-21T21:16:18Z")
Full support and professional help. My m-\>f daughter came out at 14 or 15. She said she knew from pretty much birth. Of course in Canada this professional help is available at no additional cost, but you really need to do this, and the sooner the better. And again, be supportive. There’s no better way to show your love and acceptance. I sure as hell knew who I was attracted to at 12. That’s what, grade 7? I had girlfriends by then and was sneaking peeks at my dad’s nudie mags. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/30 "2017-09-21T21:22:21Z")
Thank you all for the feedback. I’m sure she is as confused as we are about this, so we have set up an appointment with a psychologist to make sure we’re handling it the right way. I do realize we’re very contradictory, in that 1. we support her 2. she’s 12 and shouldn’t know yet 3. keep it on the downlow if it’s just a phase. It’s all part of what we’re figuring how to handle this fast-moving change. So, yeah, we don’t know what to do and still don’t know if she understands. We did talk her into dropping the Alex and “he” in school. We put it in terms of “what’s easier for the teacher and students right now.” We injected some humor by saying “I try to insist my reports at call me Thundarr, the Barbarian”, and got some chuckles out of her. The lightened mood ended in hugs. We stopped short on any other discussions until the appointment. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/31 "2017-09-21T21:26:36Z")
ISTM that part of the issue here is that for the “bigger deal” announcement the child went directly to the school – as opposed to what was discussed with the parents. Maybe perceptive enough to pick up that THAT would not be as well received. Must agree that some good counselling that allows safe discussion of what the young person is really going through is necessary. On the bit about how the child will remember that there was not unconditional support, but questioning, well… that’s a stickier one. But families have to work things through together, and yes this is something to work through. Unconditional unquestioning from-minute-one all-the-way support for all life announcements may be a lovely ideal but this is humans we’re working with. Ans as **AHunter3** points out there must be more than one way to deal and grow into it. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/32 "2017-09-21T22:07:07Z")
I have a 12 year old daughter who already considers herself asexual and prefers to dress … ambiguously? Gender-neutral? I dunno. When I was twelve I was smoking weed every day and called myself a Wiccan. I honestly don’t see how it’s any different. It’s just the gender-bending some may find squicky? I don’t know. Kids at that age are looking for their place. Maybe our kids found their place early or maybe this is a phase. I honestly don’t see the harm in this. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/33 "2017-09-21T22:19:55Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > So we tell her we’re supportive and don’t be afraid of telling us anything. While hugs abound, my wife and I exchange knowing looks “a 12 year old has no idea”, so we just decide to ignore it and let the phase take it’s course. She’s been into plays like Evan Hansen and reading teenage books, so we figure she doing it to be cool and different. We’re a little afraid to tell her to keep it personal and quiet, lest we become “My parents don’t support me.” > > […] > > So, today, it escalated: We get a call from the school. She told her teachers she wants to be addressed as “Alex” and start using the Boy’s bathroom, because she is starting to identify as male. It’s one thing to say it to us and a few of her friends. But if she’s now bold enough to tell school authorities, it looks like it’s time for a little chat. We did tell the school “She’s a girl named Anya, unless we tell you otherwise” First of all, to echo what others have said, you are not in fact being supportive of your child. I can believe that you sincerely _wish_ to be supportive, but if your child tells you something important about herself and you decide that she’s lying to get attention and hope she keeps it a secret from everyone then that is not being supportive at all. Strangers on the Internet can recognize this after hearing only your side of the story, and I think it’s likely that your kid realizes it too. Second, do you have any serious prior reason to suspect that your child would lie about something important to get attention? Reading teenage books (what else is a middle schooler supposed to read?) is not a reason. Liking theater is not a reason either, although I am curious about your reference to _Dear Evan Hansen_. I was not familiar with this musical and Googled it expecting it would be a gay romance or something, but learned that it’s actually about an awkward (straight) boy who becomes popular when he lies about having been close friends with a classmate who recently died. This is apparently a hit musical so I wouldn’t read anything into someone being a fan, but I’m wondering if you mentioned this show because your child has a history of telling lies. If so, this is something that needs to be addressed. I’m not in a position to give you advice about that, but it’s important to keep in mind that even if she’s a habitual liar she could still be telling the truth about being LGBTQ. > [@](#): > > We want her to express herself and support her whatever LGBTQ she is/becomes. That said, don’t believe a 12-year-old understands what it means. And now she’s publicly telling everyone about this, including authorities like teachers. A 12 year old might not have figured out whether she likes girls but likes boys too, only likes girls, or likes girls and also identifies as a boy, but if your child is some variety of LGBTQ then it would be very common for her to be aware of this by now. While I think it’s fairly common for a (more or less) straight adolescent girl to admire a pretty classmate and wonder “Wait, am I bisexual?”, I do not consider it plausible that a straight, cisgender adolescent would start telling adults that she’s both bi and trans unless something else was going on. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/34 "2017-09-21T22:20:02Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Heck most kids go thru a gay/bi/trans phase about that age. Well, I certainly missed out on this phase, and if most of my friends went through it, I completely missed it. ---
**Author:** ![Elemenopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5e925/32.png) [@Elemenopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elemenopy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/35 "2017-09-22T00:24:22Z")
My daughter began identifying as “other” around age 13. I didn’t assume it was a phase or not, but I did have issues with her 15 yo girlfriend at the time. Her father and I had been divorced, and he was ok with her having sleepovers at her girlfriend’s house and vice versa because “well, we don’t have to worry about her getting pregnant.” basically) I was ok with ordinary daytime visits/dates/whatever the equivalent is, but not ok with overnights–just as I wouldn’t allow my son to have his girlfriend spend the night at my house age 13-15. Regardless, my daughter’s girlfriend was very pushy and overbearing, and there were a lot of overly sexual text messages I stumbled upon, and inappropriate sexual behaviour in front of my younger children, and when I tried to put my foot down, I got accused of being homophobic and unsupportive. That wasn’t and isn’t the case. I considered myself basically omnisexual starting from my teens, and I do think it is appropriate (in our niche in society, anyway) to try to limit/balance sexual exposure at a young age…especially when it seems like an older kid is taking advantage. I had the riot act read to me, my daughter thrown into LGBT counseling where I was immediately presented as combative and bigoted (never the case) and 4-5 years later, I’m just beginning to not be “the bad guy.” HubZilla, I wish you and your child the best of luck. These are weird times, possibly even more difficult than the previous generation. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/36 "2017-09-22T04:06:30Z")
OP…I truly hope y’all will be able to navigate through this tough period it good condition, with parent/child trust and love intact …best of luck!! ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/37 "2017-09-22T04:32:22Z")
I recommend that the OP consult with a counselor who specializes in teens and gender issues. A local mental health association should be able to point them this way, or even EAP (Employee Assistance Program) if your employer offers it. EAP, BTW, is free of charge to the employee, and your employer will never know you went there unless you tell them. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/38 "2017-09-22T09:27:50Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > They are at school to learn, not explore and exhibit gender/sexuality. Sounds like learning to me. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I know I’m going to be called all kinds of names on this one but personally, unless they have clear hormonal, biological, issues (diagnosed by a doctor) I think this stuff is just in their heads and no way would I support a 12 year old on this. Heck most kids go thru a gay/bi/trans phase about that age. Did you? > [@HubZilla](#): > > 1. she’s 12 and shouldn’t know yet As pointed out repeatedly, 12 is exactly the sort of age this kind of thing really begins to manifest itself. You’re just going to have to reconcile yourself to the idea that your child is becoming a sexual being. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/39 "2017-09-22T14:06:54Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > … > As pointed out repeatedly, 12 is exactly the sort of age this kind of thing really begins to manifest itself. You’re just going to have to reconcile yourself to the idea that your child is becoming a sexual being. And that would be equally true whether the kid was hetero, homo, non-typical, or any other conceivable option. Most parents struggle with their kid getting sexual far earlier than the parent is comfortable with. But it’s a struggle the parent needs to get right. One of the wisest things anyone with kids ever said to me is: “We’re not raising children. We’re raising adults. Every day is about them becoming something more than they were yesterday. Our job is to gently pull them forward, not to hold them back.” His kids were in college at the time but that had been his philosophy since they were born. It shows. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858/40 "2017-09-22T14:18:39Z")
My daughter told me a while ago that she considers herself Bisexual. At her age (now 14) sexuality can be a pretty fluid thing, but I don’t for one second doubt her sincerity or her understanding of her sexuality. I fully support her, and that started the moment I knew I was pregnant. We have discussed who needs to know - my response was “Whomever you think needs to know, or not know”. She needs her Mom in her corner and I am more than ready to slay any dragons she needs me to. This was a huge step for your child, and one that she probably agonized over. Continue to be supportive and respect how she/he chooses to identify themselves. You already know there will be many people that cross their path that won’t be, and may be cruel or abusive, let home and parents be the soft place to fall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/put-her-back-in-the-closet/796858.md?page=3)