# Putting Gone With the Wind ticket sales into perspective **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 22, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-gone-with-the-wind-ticket-sales-into-perspective/507343 "2009-08-22T22:06:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-gone-with-the-wind-ticket-sales-into-perspective/507343/41 "2009-08-25T02:10:07Z")
Another data point from the Wall St. Journal, Feb. 15th 1941. > [@](#): > > More than 31,500,000 people have seen “Gone With the Wind,” produced by Selznick International, and released through Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, subsidiary of Loew’s, Inc. Last years’ total attendance at the “road showing” of the film was 26,000,000 and the 580 theatres now showing the picture at popular prices reported a total attendance to date of 5,500,000. > The film is now in its fourth week at the Capitol Theatre, New York, where it has played to more than 500,000 persons, far exceeding the attendance for a comparable period last year. More than 5,000 theatres have booked the film for showing this year at popular prices.. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-gone-with-the-wind-ticket-sales-into-perspective/507343/42 "2009-08-25T02:41:17Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > **Exapno Mapcase** Your point about screens is well taken, but as far as theaters in New York go. If you put in the zip code 10001 you’ll get theaters in New Jersey by the fifth page. It looks to be about 5 theaters per page, so you’re already moving out. But again New York is well New York. I didn’t say it was unheard of to have that many theaters in a city, New York certainly has more than that, but I bet the number of theaters drops precipitously when you get below the top 10 cities. Phoenix only has 27 theaters for instance. So yeah, New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Houston, San Francisco, Dallas, and Miami have more than 50 theaters but beyond that? This is beyond the argument, but it’s something I happen to be interested in, so I’m going to potter on for a bit. Fandango is not the best source for the total number of theaters in a metro area. It has several drawbacks. One is that is doesn’t cover metro areas very well. As I said with New York, half the metropolitan area (more if you include most of Long Island) is simply missing. (BTW, the figures I gave were for theaters showing Inglourious Basterds. The total number of theaters would be much higher, even for the areas covered.) It also concentrates on first run theaters. Second run theaters, drive-ins, and the like are not listed. These account for a small percentage today in times when blockbusters can get 1/3 to 1/2 their total grosses on an opening weekend, but in the past they were a huge back end of income that allowed films to live on for a surprising amount of time. As for Phoenix, I see by my Wiki that it is 12th in metropolitan population. You left out Philadelphia, Atlanta, Washington, Boston, and Detroit. San Francisco is listed as 13th, but the whole San Jose area has been subtracted out. Riverside, split out of L.A. is next, so let’s ignore that. Then comes Seattle at 15. Fandango lists 53 theaters for Seattle. My suspicion is that Phoenix has grown so fast that it lacks the service industries that older metro areas of equal size have. By the 1930 census, which I happen to have at hand (yes, I own the hardback population summary of the 1930 census: doesn’t everybody?), 93 cities had populations of 100,000 or more. (Today there are 383 metro areas of over 100,000. In 1930 city and metro area were nearly synonymous, something that is unimaginable today with a handful of exceptions where city and county have merged.) Phoenix was at 48,000. The list of cities in Samclem’s quote (Cleveland, Indianapolis, Baltimore, Albany, Youngstown and Akron) are an odd lot. They ranked 6, 21, 8, 64, 45, and 35. Cleveland was as large as Baltimore, Albany, Youngstown, and Akron combined, so it would be expected to draw a heck of a lot more than any individual one. This is all interesting, to me at least, but I need to re-emphasize that it is the number of screens that a modern movie plays on, not the number of theaters that books it, that is the important number when grosses are tabulated. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-gone-with-the-wind-ticket-sales-into-perspective/507343/43 "2009-08-25T02:42:35Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > There was a ride at the shortlived Selznick Studio Theme Park (it was in the back of the Disney Store at the West Edmonton Mall) but after too many tourists caught on fire during the Escape from Atlanta part the insurance got excessive. And of course having to find a newborn baby for the back of each car, while it added authenticity, got prohibitively expensive. > As the only surviving major cast member Olivia de Havilland was approached to do voice work for the X-Box game but kept going off book. It was bad enough that it was now Melanie who greets the Yankee soldier with the sword before Scarlett brings the gun, but when she went off book when responding to “What’s in your hand?” with “Say ‘what’s’ again motherfucker!” they couldn’t let it slide even for a 92 year old legend. Great post, Sampiro. Don’t forget: In the online game, it can really slow down your Quest To Burn Down Atlanta, if you forget to ask Butterfly McQueen if she knows anything about birthin’ any babies… ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-gone-with-the-wind-ticket-sales-into-perspective/507343/44 "2009-08-25T02:52:39Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase;11477050 GWTW made [$189 million] ([http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=releases&id=gonewiththewind.htm](http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=releases&id=gonewiththewind.htm)) in its first release. The re-releases are negligible. [/QUOTE] Just by the by, this is categorically not true. Week by week listings of box office figures don’t really exist until The Godfather, and up until around 1982 or so aren’t really to be trusted. As shady as studio accounting is now, it was even worse back in the day. Figuring out what films actually made back in the day is kind of a forensic black art. But furthermore - look at the data presented to you there - do you think it’s only been re-released twice since 1939? Nonsense. This is the trouble with inflation adjusted figures - people are just lumping in numbers at the most convenient place. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-gone-with-the-wind-ticket-sales-into-perspective/507343/45 "2009-08-25T02:59:34Z")
By way of supporting that: [under Legacy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gone_With_the_Wind_%28film%29#Legacy): Gone with the Wind was given theatrical re-releases in 1947, 1954 and 1961. It was re-released in 1967 in a 70 mm stereophonic version, which is best known today for its iconic poster. It was further rereleased in 1971, 1989, and by New Line Cinema in 1998. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-gone-with-the-wind-ticket-sales-into-perspective/507343/46 "2009-08-25T03:20:22Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > Just by the by, this is categorically not true. Week by week listings of box office figures don’t really exist until The Godfather, and up until around 1982 or so aren’t really to be trusted. As shady as studio accounting is now, it was even worse back in the day. Figuring out what films actually made back in the day is kind of a forensic black art. > > But furthermore - look at the data presented to you there - do you think it’s only been re-released twice since 1939? Nonsense. This is the trouble with inflation adjusted figures - people are just lumping in numbers at the most convenient place. These are good points. There have been more than 2 re-releases, as Raygun99 notes. [TCM](http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title.jsp?stid=414427&category=Notes), however, lists only four of these as major. Hollywood grosses are also more fiction than the plots of the films. Still, given what we know of two recent releases in the link I gave earlier, that the film grossed under $10 million total in the 1989 and 1998 releases, the ones with with the highest ticket prices, the total of all the re-releases can’t be that significant. The film played for three or four years almost continually across the U.S. in its original release. The bulk of its earnings surely came during that time. We can’t know the exact amount. The current figure that is given was compiled by \*Screen Digest \*in 2005 and seemed to be [a serious look at the past](http://www.screendaily.com/gone-with-the-wind-named-as-top-grossing-film-of-all-time/4024218.article) rather than pulled out of their ass. I have no problem saying that GWTW is the all-time champion and all-time outlier. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-gone-with-the-wind-ticket-sales-into-perspective/507343/47 "2009-08-25T03:30:14Z")
**Exapno** Your demographic data stuff is definitely interesting. I am not at your level where I have census data on my shelves but it’s the sort of thing I can geek out on for an hour or two from time to time. Your point about screens is valid, but your point about secondary screens is not. Really as it goes the studio makes less money per screening after the first week. They go for huge blockbuster events to gross heavily in the first weekend because that’s where they get the bulk of their revenue with the percentage that goes to the theaters increasing incrementally over time. By the time it gets to those secondary markets the payment to the studio is a pittance. Definitely Gone With the Wind has sold the most tickets, and that’s impressive, but I think it’s a poor argument to dismiss modern films that don’t have the same kind of culture that GWTW came about in. There is just a much greater competition for a consumer’s dollar. As has been pointed out in this thread over and over again, people used to go see movies once or twice a week. They no longer do that because they have miniature movie screens in their living rooms. We watch more movies, but fewer of them in the theaters. It’d be interesting if the studios would release ticket sales data, but of course they need to release it as monetary figures so that it seems like Hollywood is just getting bigger and bigger. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-gone-with-the-wind-ticket-sales-into-perspective/507343/48 "2009-08-25T04:38:20Z")
I can’t disagree with anything you say about the relative paucity of entertainment choices in the 1930s. It’s just that GWTW was so ridiculously far ahead of anything else that happened in that movie-loving decade that it remains sui generis. Here’s [boxofficemojo’s list of all-time inflation adjusted grosses](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm). The next non-Disney film is 1945’s The Bells of St. Mary’s. GWTW made 3.2 times as much money. The top Disney film is Snow White. GWTW made 1.8 times as much, even though for that film the re-releases comprise over 60% of the total. Those are the only films from the decade of the 1930s that make the top 100. Only 4 live action films from the 1940s do. Despite the lack of options, movie going produced low grosses until recently. Except for GWTW. It is the Mons Olympus of movies. You can’t diminish it. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-gone-with-the-wind-ticket-sales-into-perspective/507343/49 "2009-08-25T06:20:39Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Fandango is not the best source for the total number of theaters in a metro area. It has several drawbacks. One is that is doesn’t cover metro areas very well. As I said with New York, half the metropolitan area (more if you include most of Long Island) is simply missing. (BTW, the figures I gave were for theaters showing Inglourious Basterds. The total number of theaters would be much higher, even for the areas covered.) It also concentrates on first run theaters. Second run theaters, drive-ins, and the like are not listed. These account for a small percentage today in times when blockbusters can get 1/3 to 1/2 their total grosses on an opening weekend, but in the past they were a huge back end of income that allowed films to live on for a surprising amount of time. That is just not true. Plugging in zip codes and towns into Fandango for the Rochester metro area (our backyard) produces every theater within 20 miles. All of the chains, independant operators, second-run theaters and drive-ins are accounted for. It only looks incomplete because of the mileage cutoff. But if you input a zip code closer to one of the far flung theaters, it will still be listed with the rest. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-gone-with-the-wind-ticket-sales-into-perspective/507343/50 "2009-08-25T06:54:33Z")
Wow it’s amazing how complicated the money side of things is. Is number of tickets sold as hard to determine? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-gone-with-the-wind-ticket-sales-into-perspective/507343/51 "2009-08-25T07:28:32Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Except for GWTW. It is the Mons Olympus of movies. You can’t diminish it. I agree, and that’s part of why I think it’s silly to compare modern movies to it. But regardless I think this has been one of the best and most interesting threads I’ve ever started. So thanks for participating and bringing all your good info. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-gone-with-the-wind-ticket-sales-into-perspective/507343/52 "2009-08-25T15:10:43Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > However, one factual statement can be made. I should have used screens rather than theaters. Most multiplexes today will run a major summer blockbuster on 3, 4, even 5 or 6 screens simultaneously. Screens are the real core number for today’s releases. And that means that a movie can easily appear on 50 screens in a metro area. > > Even so, theaters is not completely wrong. Fandango indeed lists 50 separate theaters when I enter Inglourious Basterds into New York City and many are running multiple screenings, so I would guess the total number of screens is over 100, without any listings for Westchester County or Connecticut. That would push the metro total up over 150. a few things. Movies theaters of the past had a lot more seats than present day ones do. A film today would have to have 5 or 6 houses to be able to sell as many seats as a film of the past. I went to fandango and counted the screens for Inglorious Basterds and came up with 37 in New York City. When you do that in Fandango they start including screens in New Jersey, and far out in Long Island. I only counted the Five Boroughs. I may have missed a few so I’ll say there are 40 screens of IB in NYC right now. BUT being an R rated film, you get a few ‘extra’ runs in this market, so that number would be higher than normal. Gone with the Wind is a huge abberation in the business. No doubt. Just like Titanic was. Staying number one for about 3 months in 1997 is so freaking weird that there is nothing that compares to it. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-gone-with-the-wind-ticket-sales-into-perspective/507343/53 "2009-08-25T15:19:37Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > That is just not true. Plugging in zip codes and towns into Fandango for the Rochester metro area (our backyard) produces every theater within 20 miles. All of the chains, independant operators, second-run theaters and drive-ins are accounted for. > > It only looks incomplete because of the mileage cutoff. But if you input a zip code closer to one of the far flung theaters, it will still be listed with the rest. To keep things consistent I just plugged in the name of the city. When I do that with Rochester, NY I see 12 theaters. That’s obviously low. I have to assume that the same would be true for every other city. You may be able to get more theaters if you know how to manipulate Fandango. But the even comparison gives a minimum of major first-run theaters and that was the number I wanted to go for. If that number hits 50 theaters, or even 50 screens, that made my point. And I always use metro areas for comparison today. City limits no longer have any meaning unless you’re talking about local politics. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-gone-with-the-wind-ticket-sales-into-perspective/507343/54 "2009-08-26T23:03:12Z")
The only conclusion I ever really draw from inflation adjusted numbers is “damn, that’s an impressive amount of money” (assuming it’s so). It’s a bit like comparing the win totals of Tom Glavine to Cy Young. The eras and conditions they existed under are so different as to make the figures totally abstract. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-gone-with-the-wind-ticket-sales-into-perspective/507343/55 "2009-08-27T20:02:38Z")
**samclem** said: > [@](#): > > _Wizard of Oz_ was almost played out by the time that GWTW was in general release. **Wizard** had been released in Sept. of 1939, while GWTW was only shown in the largest 27 cities until Feb. 8th(approximately) 1940. Six months later. I don’t think anyone was arguing they were on simultaneously, so they were competing directly. Rather, that in a year with several movies that are still well known, GWTW has such impressive sales stands out. **NDP** said: > [@](#): > > Just out of curiosity, where is this town? My parents, who were the data source for my answer, grew up in the Pacific Northwest. During the early 40’s, my father lived in Lewiston, Idaho which, at the time, had a population of 10,500 and three movie theaters (there was also a fourth one across the river in Clarkston, WA which then had about 2,000 people). My mother lived for a few years in Onalaska, WA which probably didn’t even have 500 people but did have a movie theater. FWIW, my sister went to college in 1990 in [del]Deadrat[/del] - I mean Durant - Oklahoma, population 13,500 (in 2000, not sure 1990), and they didn’t have a movie theater then, even with a college located in town (Southeast Oklahoma State University). They had to drive 70 miles to Texas to see a movie. > **[Durant, Oklahoma | Demographics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durant%2C_Oklahoma#Demographics)** > > As of the 2020 census, Durant had a population of 18,589. The median age was 32.1 years. 24.2% of residents were under the age of 18 and 14.6% of residents were 65 years of age or older. For every 100 females there were 93.0 males, and for every 100 females age 18 and over there were 91.0 males age 18 and over. > 88.5% of residents lived in urban areas, while 11.5% lived in rural areas. > There were 7,189 households in Durant, of which 32.7% had children under the age of 18 living in them. Of all h... ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-gone-with-the-wind-ticket-sales-into-perspective/507343/56 "2009-08-27T20:44:35Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > FWIW, my sister went to college in 1990 in [del]Deadrat[/del] - I mean Durant - Oklahoma, population 13,500 (in 2000, not sure 1990), and they didn’t have a movie theater then, even with a college located in town (Southeast Oklahoma State University). They had to drive 70 miles to Texas to see a movie. An anecdote about a movie theater from 1990 is worth literally nothing when talking about the distribution of movie theaters in 1940. It’s like comparing the number of computers the two towns had. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-gone-with-the-wind-ticket-sales-into-perspective/507343.md?page=2)