# Putting yourself first (No More Mr Nice Guy) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 9, 2014, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152 "2014-08-09T08:27:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/1 "2014-08-09T08:27:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Nice Guys have believed a myth that promises them that if they give up themselves and put others first, they will be loved and get their needs met. There is only one way to change this illogical, nonproductive Nice Guy paradigm — putting themselves first. > > Making the decision to put the self first is the hardest part. Actually doing it is relatively easy. When the Nice Guy puts himself first there is only one voice to consider — his own. Decisions are now made by one individual, rather than by a committee. He no longer has to mind read, predict, or try to please multiple voices with conflicting agendas. When putting himself first all the information he needs to make a decision is within him: “Is this what I want? Yes. Then that’s what I’ll do.” Glover, Robert (2010-11-10). No More Mr. Nice Guy (Kindle Locations 952-957). . Kindle Edition. Hi I’m not saying I do this but it has influenced me to become more self-centered than I used to be years ago. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/2 "2014-08-09T09:35:54Z")
You’re too late to put yourself first, I was first at putting myself first. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/3 "2014-08-09T10:49:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Decisions are now made by one individual, rather than by a committee. He no longer has to mind read, predict, or try to please multiple voices with conflicting agendas. When putting himself first all the information he needs to make a decision is within him: “Is this what I want? Yes. Then that’s what I’ll do.” I have tried this. In my case, the results were pretty much what you’d expect when you give absolute power to a complete hedonist with no administrative experience. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/4 "2014-08-09T11:03:59Z")
The thesis, from the little detail in the OP, seems very reminiscent of Robert J Ringer’s _Looking Out For #1_, from the early 70s, except perhaps with a stronger emphasis on MRA, as opposed to the generally anti-altruism thrust of Ringer’s book. Can’t say off the bat that it would be any more likely to appeal to me now than it did then. ---
**Author:** ![JWT\_Kottekoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@JWT\_Kottekoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JWT_Kottekoe)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/5 "2014-08-09T13:27:15Z")
I knew some guys who had a nice-guy room mate. Everyone liked him, but he ended up sleeping in the garage. He went to one of those “me first” training courses, and turned into an \*\*\*hole. They kicked him out of the house. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/6 "2014-08-09T14:29:39Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > Hi I’m not saying I do this but it has influenced me to become more self-centered than I used to be years ago. Too… easy… ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/7 "2014-08-09T14:44:42Z")
As with most things in life, balance is key. There’s a difference between putting yourself last and caring exclusively about yourself to the detriment of whoever may happen to get in your way. Why pretend there’s no middle ground? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/8 "2014-08-09T15:58:11Z")
Put myself first? I was just intentionally tripping up the POV of people who I felt were better than me, so I could be Seen as first. It made me feel big and powerful and important because I’m Incredibly insecure about all those things. Oh wait, that wasn’t me. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/9 "2014-08-09T18:56:34Z")
> [@dba\_Fred](#): > > You’re too late to put yourself first, I was first at putting myself first. And [Tyr Anasazi](http://www.philippa.ukme.com/philippa/images/Keith.jpg) beat _you_ to it. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/10 "2014-08-09T20:55:45Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > As with most things in life, balance is key. There’s a difference between putting yourself last and caring exclusively about yourself to the detriment of whoever may happen to get in your way. Why pretend there’s no middle ground? You beat me to the mention of balance. As to why pretend there is no middle ground - 2 reasons I think. First is the “no more mr. nice guy” thing justifies selfish behavior. Second is that it’s easier to follow an arbitrary rule than to make the hard decisions necessary to find a balance beteen doing for others and ourselves. This is not to say that I think the message is valueless. The irony is that the audience of the book are guys who put others first not because they are truly selfless, but because it is a means to an end. The “nice guy” who does anything the object of his desires wants because he hopes she’ll eventually have sex with him isn’t being selfless at all. We’d all be better off if that guy dropped the charade. Also, some people are so caught up in worrying about what other people want that they’re not honest with themselves about what they themselves really want. When deciding where to eat the “nice guy” will say “wherever you all want” every time because he doesn’t feel entitled to his own opinion. Then he’ll get more and more pissed off over time that you never go to Chinese, even though he never said he wanted it. If he had felt his own opinion was as important as everybody else’s, then he would have said " how about Chinese?" Now, for him to insist on Chinese if everybody else wants Mexican would make him a jerk. For him to suggest it does not. Hope that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/11 "2014-08-09T21:13:02Z")
The particular part that was quoted is complete BS. Here’s how “nice guys” want it to work: 1. Give up themselves and put others first 2. ? 3. Be loved and have their needs met! Here’s how it really works, when people: 1. Give up themselves and put others first 2. Ask people to love them and meet their needs 3. Be loved and have their needs met! What culture has deemed a “nice guy” is just someone who doesn’t express himself and yet is so full of himself that he thinks other people not only know his needs, but that they’ll be falling over themselves trying to satisfy the need. These people are not actually nice guys. At best, they’re simply isolated with poor communication skills. At worst, they’re full-blown narcissists. Most of the time they actually are self-centered, they’re just to pathetic to go out and get what they want. The nice guy label is just how they congratulate themselves for failure. But you don’t have to be a self-centered person to ask for what you want. You can be nice AND ask for what you want. You don’t have to be one or the other. Now, maybe the book goes on to spend 700 pages elaborating the point I just made, but the quoted section is missing the point. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/12 "2014-08-10T00:40:48Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Too… easy… I hear you. I went through the whole “must … resist …” thing early this morning. Fortunately, I came out on top as well. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/13 "2014-08-10T02:10:46Z")
So, yeah, just what the world needs; more narcissists. This isn’t the old west, boys, where the men posture and preen while the women take care of _EVERYTHING_, and must look pretty and demure doing it. By the way, researchers have been trying to find the easiest & most reliable way to identify narcissists. After years of papers, modeling different personality traits, they’ve found the most reliable is to just ask them. It seems that narcissists are so self-assured, they’re actually proud of their narcissism. After I heard that, I asked my husband if he is and he answered, “Of course I am!” There is a difference between being a nice guy and being a door mat, but if you expect people to respect you more when you’re a jerk, you may need a PET scan. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/14 "2014-08-10T04:11:37Z")
I thought this was interesting. Personally I’d rather have more free time. > [@](#): > > **Remember, what one man can do another man can do. If one man can make a million dollars, why can’t you? If one man can start the business of his dreams, why can’t you? If one man can drive a Mercedes, why can’t you? If one man can quit a crummy job and find a better one, why can’t you? If one man can be a snowboarding instructor, why can’t you? Unfortunately, the world can’t give us something that we’re not ready to receive. Since deprivation thinking keeps a person holding tightly to what he already has, there is no receptivity for receiving more.** > > Glover, Robert (2010-11-10). No More Mr. Nice Guy (Kindle Locations 2223-2227). . Kindle Edition. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/15 "2014-08-10T05:07:34Z")
You know, guys, maybe we’re all being too negative here. If what \*\*JohnClay \*\*wants is to go out and achieve his dreams, then I’m all for that. You go, **John**. Don’t let us bring you down. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/16 "2014-08-10T05:15:21Z")
I don’t mind criticism of the NMMNG book… also I’m just trying to get the low-hanging fruit. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/17 "2014-08-10T05:20:31Z")
I read this book and got a lot out of it. I think much of the criticism is perhaps due to misunderstanding of the typical marketing hype. The book is NOT all about how it’s bad to be “nice” and that you have to be a jerk to get ahead. It really goes into how so-called “nice guys” really are NOT nice and use the whole nice guy thing to avoid dealing with their issues. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/18 "2014-08-10T05:58:05Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The thesis, from the little detail in the OP, **seems very reminiscent of Robert J Ringer’s _Looking Out For #1_, from the early 70s** , except perhaps with a stronger emphasis on MRA, as opposed to the generally anti-altruism thrust of Ringer’s book. . . . which, in turn, I thought was _very_ reminiscent (to the point of being a near rip-off) of the earlier [How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World](http://www.amazon.com/How-Found-Freedom-Unfree-World/dp/0965603679) by [Harry Browne](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Browne) (orig. pub. 1973). ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/19 "2014-08-10T10:35:13Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > You beat me to the mention of balance. > > The irony is that the audience of the book are guys who put others first not because they are truly selfless, but because it is a means to an end. The “nice guy” who does anything the object of his desires wants because he hopes she’ll eventually have sex with him isn’t being selfless at all. We’d all be better off if that guy dropped the charade. This has really become old. “Nice guys” who don’t get laid are always assumed to be in fact secretly jerks using a strategy to get into someone’s pants. While it’s way more likely that they’re simply shy, or not good at seducing woman, or have internalized the wrong message, or behave like doormat, or be socially inept, or have a hard time saying no or hurting people, and so on. The idea that they might actually be nice seem to never be considered. I think frankly that most of the time, they get a double sentencing : they don’t have a romantic life and on top of it are mocked for their supposed flaws. And I wrote “have a romantic life” on purpose, since it’s always assumed that what they’re after is sex, and not love. > [@](#): > > Also, some people are so caught up in worrying about what other people want that they’re not honest with themselves about what they themselves really want. When deciding where to eat the “nice guy” will say “wherever you all want” every time because he doesn’t feel entitled to his own opinion. Then he’ll get more and more pissed off over time Like in the case of the “nice guy”, they’re non-assertive people, for whatever reason. Yes, it might be an inconvenience for others, but it’s primarily an issue for them. And let’s not get fooled, there are plenty of people who are perfectly willing to use non-assertive people for their advantage and become pissed if suddenly they dare raise their head instead of staying the doormat they’re accustomed to. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152/20 "2014-08-10T11:57:08Z")
There are nice guys and then there are Nice Guys. The latter assume that they are entitled to get a girlfriend merely because they are nice, and become confused and/or angry when their mission of befriending a woman and doing favors for her doesn’t make her panties fall off. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/putting-yourself-first-no-more-mr-nice-guy/695152.md?page=2)