# Puzzled by transgender bathroom laws. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 17, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498 "2016-04-17T20:00:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/1 "2016-04-17T20:00:46Z")
So the main argument for forcing people to use the bathroom corresponding to their birth gender seems to be “But then men can just dress up as women and hang out in the womens room doing pervy stuff and OMG!” But…won’t his be way easier WITH these laws? Won’t the pervy men be able to just walk into womens restrooms claiming to be transmen, no disguise needed? Isn’t that way less effort? Don’t these laws, effectively, make it impossible to object to people who look like men just hanging out on womens restrooms? What am I missing here? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/2 "2016-04-17T20:12:46Z")
I’ve had the exact same question. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/3 "2016-04-17T20:13:08Z")
Stupidity. Sadly, there is no cure, or at least, none that is legal. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/4 "2016-04-17T20:36:12Z")
In order to enforce the law they would have to have some way to identify people as to whether they were transmen or not. Sewing pink triangles on their shirts, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/5 "2016-04-17T21:16:03Z")
Not if the next step is banning transitioning. There, problem solved! ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/6 "2016-04-17T21:30:28Z")
Entitled middle aged white guys. There is absolutely nothing we can’t fuck up for other people. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/7 "2016-04-17T21:41:14Z")
Another thing that confuses me is what the real-world **benefit** is of letting trans men/women use the restroom of their self-identified gender? Is the idea that a transgender man is at less risk of violence by using the men’s room instead of being forced to use the women’s? I don’t understand that. Wouldn’t men who are prone to violence against trans _women_ be just as likely to commit violence against trans _men_? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/8 "2016-04-17T22:07:18Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Another thing that confuses me is what the real-world **benefit** is of letting trans men/women use the restroom of their self-identified gender? Is the idea that a transgender man is at less risk of violence by using the men’s room instead of being forced to use the women’s? I don’t understand that. Wouldn’t men who are prone to violence against trans _women_ be just as likely to commit violence against trans _men_? If they realize they’re transmen, perhaps. Which is a lot harder than recognizing a transwoman in a men’s restroom. Trans people have been using the restroom of their identified gender for decades and no one really noticed. Now [he](http://wpmedia.montrealgazette.com/2015/03/gender-neutral-restroom-1000.jpeg?quality=55&strip=all) would be forced to use the ladies’ room and [she](http://www.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2015517/rs_634x1024-150617085631-634.Laverne-Cox-Black-Dress-High-Slit-Cutouts-amfAR-JR-61715.jpg) would be forced to use a men’s room in NC. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/9 "2016-04-17T23:19:07Z")
Also, one of the main reasons to transition is so that they can live their lives like their preferred gender. They’re women; women use the women’s restroom; they want to use the women’s restroom because that’s what women do. Providing unisex bathrooms actually prevents them from fully realizing their transition. I don’t imagine they’ll complain, but it’s like studying hard for a test and then you find out it’s cancelled. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/10 "2016-04-17T23:38:17Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Also, one of the main reasons to transition is so that they can live their lives like their preferred gender. They’re women; women use the women’s restroom; they want to use the women’s restroom because that’s what women do. I understand this. But the arguments for allowing trans people to use the restroom of their self-identified gender always include the safety aspect. And I don’t really understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/11 "2016-04-17T23:45:06Z")
The big safety issue is for transwomen who are at extraordinarily high risk of rape, even more so than ciswomen. They are also more likely to be murdered than ciswomen. There is a certain subset of men who view transwomen as vermin to be exterminated. I can’t wrap my mind around the mindset, and don’t particularly want to, but the crime stats indicate that this is a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/12 "2016-04-18T00:35:25Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The big safety issue is for transwomen who are at extraordinarily high risk of rape, even more so than ciswomen. They are also more likely to be murdered than ciswomen. There is a certain subset of men who view transwomen as vermin to be exterminated. I can’t wrap my mind around the mindset, and don’t particularly want to, but the crime stats indicate that this is a problem. Could you link to any of these crime stats? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/13 "2016-04-18T00:40:08Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I understand this. But the arguments for allowing trans people to use the restroom of their self-identified gender always include the safety aspect. And I don’t really understand it. You’d be surprised how many bigoted laws have been rationalized as being for “safety reasons.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/14 "2016-04-18T00:45:46Z")
[‘But officer! My birth certificate says I’m female!’](http://instinctmagazine.com/post/ftm-transgender-bodybuilder-shawn-stinson-speaks-out-anti-trans-bathroom-law) ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/15 "2016-04-18T00:48:30Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > You’d be surprised how many bigoted laws have been rationalized as being for “safety reasons.” The post you quoted wasn’t referring to any law, rather the elimination of such laws or practices. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/16 "2016-04-18T00:50:48Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Could you link to any of these crime stats? Una might be a better source for those stats, although I hesitate to drag her into this any more than she already has been given how much time and energy I know she spends on these issues in real life. I’ll see what I can find that’s pretty firm, it’s been a few years since I actually looked them up myself. ---
**Author:** ![Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cabin_fever_1/32/2908_2.png) [@Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabin_Fever_1)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/17 "2016-04-18T01:46:20Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > In order to enforce the law they would have to have some way to identify people as to whether they were transmen or not. Sewing pink triangles on their shirts, for example. Oh please… ---
**Author:** ![Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cabin_fever_1/32/2908_2.png) [@Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabin_Fever_1)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/18 "2016-04-18T01:52:04Z")
Taking you to the Pit. Pink triangles? ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/19 "2016-04-18T01:59:59Z")
> [@Cabin\_Fever](#): > > Taking you to the Pit. > Pink triangles? I’m pretty sure Ethilrist was being sarcastic. As in the Nazis used pink triangles to identify homosexuals. And sent them to extermination camps. And that our identifiing people in such a way (or making stupid demands about which bathroom a trans person must use) is fascist. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498/20 "2016-04-18T02:09:46Z")
The real problem seems to be the…pervy men. Perhaps laws should target the real problem, not the victims? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/puzzled-by-transgender-bathroom-laws/752498.md?page=2)