# Q for Pros: When does age of sexual attraction become "abnormal"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-for-pros-when-does-age-of-sexual-attraction-become-abnormal/296461 "2005-03-27T15:31:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sarah\_Woodruff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sarah\_Woodruff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarah_Woodruff)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-for-pros-when-does-age-of-sexual-attraction-become-abnormal/296461/21 "2005-03-28T07:09:09Z")
I would think that desiring someone who is physically, emotionally and mentally still a child would be abnormal, but that leaves a lot of grey areas, unfortunately - like, if an adult male found a mentally retarded adult female sexually attractive, would it be unethical for him to act on those feelings? She might be physically a woman, and feel sexual feelings for him, but mentally she might be a little girl. Is this paedophilia, or not? I don’t know, but it’s not a situation I would be comfortable with if I were the woman’s parents or siblings. A lawyer might say that acting upon an attraction to a person who is not capable of giving consent to intercourse because they don’t possess the mental capacity to know what they are consenting to, would be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-for-pros-when-does-age-of-sexual-attraction-become-abnormal/296461/22 "2005-03-28T09:05:41Z")
Unfortunately, I haven’t had much experience in fetishes or paraphilias. Pedophilia is a difficult one because people are reluctant to study it other than how to treat and prevent it. They worry, and rightly so, that if they figure out that pedophiles are entirely created by genetic impules, the pedophilies will argue for the right to act out their fantasies. There have been very noted sexologists who argued that some children can consent to sex and such actions are not harmful to the children. But again, this is very risky territory. I don’t want to post any of the ‘positive’ studies here, but there was a study done back in 1998 that got a lot of conservatives up in arms. If you google ‘[usatoday.com](http://usatoday.com) farberman’ you can find more information. The official teaching of the APA is that pedophilia is a mental illness and should be a criminal activity. > [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > - Is there any consensus on where the lower end of “normal” age of attraction lies? Is there an age or stage of development (eg puberty) below which sexual attraction is considered a mental illness by most professionals? Pedophiles fantasize about children who are prepubscent. Because some girls start puberty at 9, a man who develops an attraction for a fully developed 10 year old is not a pedophile in the meaning of the word. Generally though, 12 and under is the accepted age. Pedophiles are generally divided into four categories: exclusive, nonexlusive and fixated, regressed. An exclusive pedophile is one who is only attracted to children while a nonexclusive pedophile is attracted to both adults and children. A fixated pedophile regards him or herself as a child and has been attracted to children since they were children. Regressed pedophiles typical prefer girls and treat them as women. > [@](#): > > - It’s known that adolescence has expanded greatly (starting sooner with earlier puberty, and lasting later) – not just by months, but by a factor of years when compared even to a century ago. What effect, if any, has this phenomenon had on the incidence of pedophilia, cultural norms, and pedophiles’/ephebophiles’ self-perception? People are considered pedophiles by this culture, yet would not be considered pedophiles in other cultures. In more than a few ancient societies, it was common for pre-pubescent boys to engage in sexual relations with older men. There were tribes where all the boys engaged in sex with men and other cultures where it was extremely typical. I’ve never known a pedophile or an ephebophile who wasn’t aware of his/her attractions and society’s view of such attractions. The earlier incidents of puberty mean that exclusive pedophiles are attracted to younger and younger girls. (the age of male puberty has not changed, AFAIK) > [@](#): > > - What, if any, effect does child pornography (and its supposed increasing availability through mass media) have on pedophiles, specifically the tendency to cross the line into action (child molestation)? Do non-pornographic images of children (eg in advertising) have a stimulatory effect for fantasy or action? I’ve wondered about this question myself and haven’t been able to find a satisfactory answer. I think at this point, we really don’t know. (unless I am unaware of some studies). For regressive pedophiles, little girls dressed up like women is very stimulating. There are websites devoted to this subject but I am not going to tell you how to find them. > [@](#): > > - Do changing cultural norms seem to affect the self-perception of pedophiles/ephebophiles as “deviants”? If so, does this affect their actions as well? I have not known any pedophiles personally, at least, none that I’ve talked to in great detail. Exclusive pedophiles do not care what society says the proper age is for sexual relations. Nonexclusive pedophiles are more likely to stay away from young children under the age of whatever society deems is normal. Of the ephebephiles (all I’ve known have been female, at least the ones who’ve been open about it), most restrict their actions so as not to risk prosecution. I feel that a lot more people would engage in ephebephlic behavior if it were to be legalized. > [@](#): > > - How valid are theories of “imprinting” and “critical periods” – ie, that sexual encounters with adults at certain stages of psychological development may trigger a lifelong tendency to be aroused sexually by children? Again, more research is needed. Some pedophiles certainly were created by sexual abuse they themselves endured when they were younger. However, the percentage of pedophiles for whom this is true is unknown. [[M]ost male victims of child sexual abuse do not abuse children later in life-however there are specific factors that increase the chances of sexually abused children becoming abusers.](http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-02/l-ros020503.php) > [@](#): > > - What light can evolutionary psychology shed on the issue of how to deal with pedophilia in our culture? The attraction to young, pubescent children is completely natural and understandable. However, I do not think that pedophiles developed through evolution. I think that early childhood issues are to deal with, not biological drives. Because of this, I think pedophilia should remain very much illegal and those over 18 who engage in sexual activities with children under the age of 12 should go to prison for life. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-for-pros-when-does-age-of-sexual-attraction-become-abnormal/296461/23 "2005-03-28T15:13:22Z")
> [@e-logic](#): > > “If there’s grass on the pitch, let the games commence” 😉 > > i.e. once an individual shows the physical signs of sexual maturity (and pubic hair is the most instantly obvious sign) then breeding with them becomes an acceptable option from an evolutionary point-of-view. Are you talking Tanner Stage 5 pubic hair, or _any_ pubic hair? Because children as young as eight or nine can develop pubic hair, long before they are sexually mature. This generally happens several years before the onset of menstruation in girls, so there’s no change of successful “breeding”. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-for-pros-when-does-age-of-sexual-attraction-become-abnormal/296461/24 "2005-03-28T15:31:37Z")
I think you just answered your own question. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-for-pros-when-does-age-of-sexual-attraction-become-abnormal/296461/25 "2005-03-28T17:06:55Z")
Thank you, **kimera**. The link to the Lancet review was helpful. I’m glad that you did not post a link to the girls-in-sexy-dress site! :eek: I was going to mention that surely it goes without saying that laws against adults engaging in sex with kids under 12 are a good thing… then I recalled that there are groups out there who claim otherwise. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-for-pros-when-does-age-of-sexual-attraction-become-abnormal/296461/26 "2005-03-28T22:01:33Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Are you talking Tanner Stage 5 pubic hair, or _any_ pubic hair? Because children as young as eight or nine can develop pubic hair, long before they are sexually mature. This generally happens several years before the onset of menstruation in girls, so there’s no change of successful “breeding”. I didn’t say it was a cast-iron guide, nor that it’s the only marker of sexual maturity, but it remains one of the most obvious signs. Taken in conjunction with other physical changes it’s relatively easy to distinguish between young adults who are possibly sexually mature, and those who certainly are not. And as I understand it, paedophilia is attraction to non-mature children. In simple terms, “abberant” attraction is towards children who are not sexually mature; attraction to a sexually mature individual is fine, apart from the social constraints imposed by our society. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-for-pros-when-does-age-of-sexual-attraction-become-abnormal/296461/27 "2005-03-28T22:46:07Z")
> [@e-logic](#): > > I didn’t say it was a cast-iron guide, nor that it’s the only marker of sexual maturity, but it remains one of the most obvious signs. > > Taken in conjunction with other physical changes it’s relatively easy to distinguish between young adults who are possibly sexually mature, and those who certainly are not. And as I understand it, paedophilia is attraction to non-mature children. But my point is, puberty is not an on/off switch. Kids don’t sprout a full bush overnight. It’s far, far too simple to say something like “pubic hair is a marker of sexual maturity”. This is why I’m asking you whether you meant that _any_ pubic hair _at all_ (or any swelling of the breasts, etc.) is sufficient sign of being “possibly sexually mature” or whether you meant that the development had to have reached a certain stage to count. ---
**Author:** ![UselessGit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/74df32/32.png) [@UselessGit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UselessGit)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-for-pros-when-does-age-of-sexual-attraction-become-abnormal/296461/28 "2005-03-29T14:25:44Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > [Age of Consent](http://ageofconsent.com/). > > In Albania, Austria, Canada, China, Colombia, Croatia, Estonia, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Peru, Puerto Rico, Romania, and Slovenia the age of consent for heterosexual relations is 14. It’s either 16 or 18 here in Iceland now, actually (hard to tell since no-one goes by these laws). Used to be 14 _or_ a certain weight, can’t remember how much but probably around 100 pounds. Don’t mess with kids under 14 unless they’re fat, you perv! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-for-pros-when-does-age-of-sexual-attraction-become-abnormal/296461.md?page=1)