# Q: Greek Alphabet **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 5, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584 "2005-11-05T01:22:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/1 "2005-11-05T01:22:41Z")
If you ever find a list of the Greek letters, you will notice there are lower case and capital letters. But, theta has a third form. Is this what some languages call a “final form” of a letter? Extra Credit: Also, can anyone equate the 24 greek letters to their English counterparts, like alpha = a; beta = b…how about eta vs. epislon? (Are both e?) What sound is an omega (vs. omicron)? Do some Greek letters have no English counterparts? Thanks, - Jinx ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/2 "2005-11-05T01:28:35Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > Extra Credit: Also, can anyone equate the 24 greek letters to their English counterparts, like alpha = a; beta = b…how about eta vs. epislon? (Are both e?) > What sound is an omega (vs. omicron)? > > Do some Greek letters have no English counterparts? What you are looking for here is called a [transliteration](http://www.translatum.gr/converter/greek-transliteration.htm). ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/3 "2005-11-05T01:30:51Z")
> [@](#): > > But, theta has a third form. Is this what some languages call a “final form” of a letter? Are you sure you’re not thinking of sigma? It has three forms (uppercase, lowercase, and final), but theta only has two. > [@](#): > > Also, can anyone equate the 24 greek letters to their English counterparts, like alpha = a; beta = b…how about eta vs. epislon? (Are both e?) Anciently they were short vs. long, but in modern pronunciation eta is like an “i” and epsilon is an “e”. > [@](#): > > What sound is an omega (vs. omicron)? Anciently, long vs. short “o”; modern Greek, both are “o”. > [@](#): > > Do some Greek letters have no English counterparts? Yes. Eta, omega, psi, chi, theta, and phi (unless you consider it equivalent to an “f”, which I don’t, as the “f” comes from digamma, and anciently phi was an aspirated “p”). ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/4 "2005-11-05T01:36:22Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > Are you sure you’re not thinking of sigma? It has three forms (uppercase, lowercase, and final), but theta only has two. My list shows theta with three forms, and sigma with two forms. COuld one list be an ancient Greek alphabet vs. modern Greek alphabet? - Jinx 😕 ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/5 "2005-11-05T01:44:47Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > My list shows theta with three forms, and sigma with two forms. COuld one list be an ancient Greek alphabet vs. modern Greek alphabet? > > - Jinx 😕 You sure you’re not confusing sigma and theta? Sigma is [symbol]S s V[/symbol], and [symbol]V[/symbol] is the final form. Theta is [symbol]Q q[/symbol], and I’ve never seen a third form for it. I also can’t think of any Greek words that end in [symbol]q[/symbol], but lots that end in [symbol]V[/symbol]. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/6 "2005-11-05T01:53:48Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > Extra Credit: Also, can anyone equate the 24 greek letters to their English counterparts, like alpha = a; beta = b…how about eta vs. epislon? (Are both e?) You can’t really spell out specific equivalencies like that. The English word for “Greek” is “Ελληνικά” in Greek. Similar-looking letters are used for different things in the Greek alphabet. Adam ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/7 "2005-11-05T01:59:37Z")
Oh, did you just want the transliterations of the letters? I thought you were looking for the English equivalents. Here goes: Α - alpha Β - beta Γ - gamma Δ - delta Ε - epsilon Ζ - zeta Η - eta Θ - theta Ι - iota Κ - kappa Λ - lambda Μ - mu Ν - nu Ξ - xi (pronounced “zie”, rhymes with “pie”) Ο - omicron Π - pi Ρ - rho Σ - sigma Τ - tau Υ - upsilon Φ - phi Χ - chi Ψ - psi Ω - omega Adam ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/8 "2005-11-05T02:06:41Z")
> [@Agent Foxtrot](#): > > Oh, did you just want the transliterations of the letters? Might wanna look up that word. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/9 "2005-11-05T02:29:15Z")
Some lists of Greek letters show an extra form for theta and phi, but it’s not really a different form, it’s just a sloppy way of writing the lower-case forms. A lot of people who use Greek letters often (for instance, physicists) have a way of writing phi and theta in a single pen-movement, producing a letter that looks a little different than the standard typeset version (for instance, the quick-phi lacks an upper extension to its crossbar). For some reason, someone decided that these quick-and-dirty forms of the letters deserved a place in the typeset, too. This might be what the OP is thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/10 "2005-11-05T02:30:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Ξ - xi (pronounced “zie”, rhymes with “pie”) Actully, it’s pronounced “ksee,” as in the last half of the word “taxi.” A lot of the fraternity pronunciations of Greek letters are totally wrong. The letters that are typically pronounced to rhyme with “pie” are actually prounced with “ee” sounds. (iota = “EEota,” pi = “pee,” phi = “fee,” chi = “kee” and psi = “psee” (like the last syllable of the word “pepsi.” ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/11 "2005-11-05T09:13:22Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > Might wanna look up that word. I couldn’t think of a better word. Is there actually a word for the pronounciation of letters? > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Ξ - xi (pronounced “zie”, rhymes with “pie”) > > Actully, it’s pronounced “ksee,” as in the last half of the word “taxi.” Looks like my teacher in middle school told me wrong. Dammit. ☹ Adam ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/12 "2005-11-05T11:47:52Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Actully, it’s pronounced “ksee,” as in the last half of the word “taxi.” > > A lot of the fraternity pronunciations of Greek letters are totally wrong. The letters that are typically pronounced to rhyme with “pie” are actually prounced with “ee” sounds. (iota = “EEota,” pi = “pee,” phi = “fee,” chi = “kee” and psi = “psee” (like the last syllable of the word “pepsi.” The fraternities aren’t pronouncing the letters wrongly, they’re Anglicizing them. They’re not Ancient Greeks, they’re Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/13 "2005-11-05T13:13:51Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > A lot of the fraternity pronunciations of Greek letters are totally wrong. The letters that are typically pronounced to rhyme with “pie” are actually prounced with “ee” sounds. (iota = “EEota,” pi = “pee,” phi = “fee,” chi = “kee” and psi = “psee” (like the last syllable of the word “pepsi.” I was taught otherwise, but that was classical Attic Greek, rather than modern Greek. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/14 "2005-11-05T14:57:18Z")
I took Attic Greek as well as Koine. I no nothing of modern Greek. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/15 "2005-11-05T15:31:27Z")
Ok, another related question-- did ancient Greek have both upper- and lower-case letters, or was one set developed only later on (like Latin characters and Carolingian minuscule)? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/16 "2005-11-05T15:50:30Z")
> [@capybara](#): > > Ok, another related question-- did ancient Greek have both upper- and lower-case letters, or was one set developed only later on (like Latin characters and Carolingian minuscule)? It was originally all upper case (or “majuscule” script). Lower case letters for Greek (called “miniscule”) arose around the 7th Century CE. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/17 "2005-11-05T19:34:18Z")
> [@Agent Foxtrot](#): > > Oh, did you just want the transliterations of the letters? I thought you were looking for the English equivalents. Here goes: > > Α - alpha > Β - beta > Γ - gamma > Δ - delta > Ε - epsilon > Ζ - zeta > Η - eta > Θ - theta > Ι - iota > Κ - kappa > Λ - lambda > Μ - mu > Ν - nu > Ξ - xi (pronounced “zie”, rhymes with “pie”) > Ο - omicron > Π - pi > Ρ - rho > Σ - sigma > Τ - tau > Υ - upsilon > Φ - phi > Χ - chi > Ψ - psi > Ω - omega > > Adam And two archaic letters, never used in Classical, Koiné, or Modern Greek, but present in the oldest inscriptions, and part of the letter-equals-number system used by the Greeks for writing numbers, were _digamma_, following epsilon in alphabetic sequence when used, and looking like _F_; and _koppa_ or _qoppa_, cognate to Roman Q and resembling the “female” or Venus symbol without the crosspiece, or perhaps a lollipop with a very short stick, following pi. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/18 "2005-11-05T22:28:48Z")
> [@Agent Foxtrot](#): > > I couldn’t think of a better word. Is there actually a word for the pronounciation of letters? Dunno if there is one word that means “letter names”; at least I’ve never heard one. I’d be interested if anyone _does_ know of one. A transliteration is something else, as you probably know by now. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/19 "2005-11-05T22:58:18Z")
Agent Foxtrot: What you posted isn’t a transliteration. It’s a list of the names of the letters. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584/20 "2005-11-05T23:00:21Z")
Q.E.D.: Phonetic values? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-greek-alphabet/329584.md?page=2)