# Q: How many poor, black Katrina victims does it take to equal one rich 9/11 victim? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 2, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749 "2005-09-02T16:17:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/261 "2005-09-04T03:00:23Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > I spoke to my SIL for about 20 minutes today. She could not say enough about the nurses and the rest of the staff. To get some patients to the makeshift Helo pads, 8 doctors & nurses lifted a gurney up several flights of stairs. Stopping at > each landing to make sure they weren’t losing the patient. I don’t have the total numbers but they rescued all but 2 critical patients. > > On Wednesday a desperate man actually swam up to the hospital to beg for milk for his 6 month old baby. The hospital had none left to give him. > > She mentioned that they (Tulane had armed guards and they never had trouble with Looters as the ground floor was under water by that time. > > She saw Coast Guard and Forestry/ Games commission service from day 1. > > (She did not say so, but she stayed on as a volunteer to help in any way possible, even though she has her doctorate in Medical Biology and nothing related to patients) > > My BIL is a Doctor and he stayed on rather than leave. He went beyond the Hippocratic oath by helping 2 hospitals. You’re killing me here. I bet you never hear any of this on the tube. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/262 "2005-09-04T03:55:23Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Thank you for a rational rebuttal of by theory. > I don’t think, I actually suggested driving the trucks to the flood zone, I was asking about staging them as near as possible and therefore a lot closer than several states away. I believe a few miles north of the Rt10 bridge that stayed operational would have been a good and useful staging area. From this location, I would expect Helicopters to ferry the relief materials in. > > As you said, there are a lot of empty trailers every day that don’t get used. A large percentage of commercial truckers are owner operators now. > > according to [http://www.bls.gov/oco/cg/cgs021.htm](http://www.bls.gov/oco/cg/cgs021.htm) and [http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos246.htm](http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos246.htm) > In Thousands: > Truck drivers, heavy and tractor-trailer 721 > Over 10 percent of all truck drivers and driver/sales workers were self-employed. Of these, a significant number were owner-operators who either served a variety of businesses independently or leased their services and trucks to a trucking company. > **This means there are approximately 72,000 owner operators**. If 1% responded to a call for help that would at least be 720 Drivers with rigs. If the \*\*28,000 trucking companies \*\* could risk perhaps 280 additional truck teams, then I have my WAG of 1000 trucks. > Trailers are available, I think you all will at least give me that. > > Now we need coordination: > I will use FedEx as an example only because I have a friend that works in the Memphis Hubs data center. He has told me that FedEx has \*\*excess capacity \*\* for dispatching because of the needs for **Christmas capacity**. He said his center could probably handle about 100-200 extra trucks with about 6 hours lead time. > > Now I \*\*forgot \*\* to ask about where the other hubs are and how many. It sounds like FedEx may have been capable of handling the dispatching by themselves. > I think UPS must have similar capacity, as they are the largest trucker in the world, but this is definitely a WAG. > > Could 100 trucks from 1000 different locations have put together a truckload of Food, water, Flashlight, batteries, blankets, Generators and etc on 12 hours notice? I think so, I have seen NYC area put together 80 trucks in donations in 24 hours. This was for a Florida Hurricane, I think Andrew. > > As far as Corporation not risking there assets: > MONTGOMERY, Ala. (Aug. 28, 2005) – While Gulf Coast residents brace for the arrival of Hurricane Katrina, \*\*Anheuser-Busch \*\* Cos. Inc. is preparing to supply emergency drinking water immediately after the storm. > [http://www.anheuser-busch.com/news/Katrina082905.htm](http://www.anheuser-busch.com/news/Katrina082905.htm) > > Sounds like they were more prepared than FEMA. 😉 > > **Now the hardest part. Where do we get the Helicopter from?** > > Okay, I’m stumped on this one. Out of my league and guessing that a huge number of Navy, Marine & Army Helicopters are deployed overseas. > \*\*Who can help me \*\* with rough locations of domestic helicopters that may have been available if notice went out quicker? You actually did first person research when you queried your friend. I like that. After reading your web search (also good) it rekindled a thought I had. I’ve been watching the local news and there are groups filling straight trucks and driving them down to New Orleans. I also passed a fleet of commercial buses that I suspect were doing the same thing. FEMA doesn’t have to spend a dime for secondary supplies because they are heading down in large quantities without any government involvement. If there isn’t a specific FEMA group coordinating this their ought to be because I expect private/corporate donations will greatly outstrip government warehouse material. This may already be a part of rescue scenarios, I don’t know anything about how FEMA operates. Could 1000 trucks from 100 locations launch on a moments notice. Absolutely. I guarantee you if every city of 250,000 rented a truck and asked for donations it would be full in less than 1 hour. When the WTC fell Oklahoma City gathered blood donations and had it airlifted by private aircraft that night. That’s how fast it can happen. One hour after sunup it was delivered in NYC. Fire trucks were donated or lent by cities across the country. Distance is the only restriction here. What we are discussing is not the ability to cough up supplies, it’s the delivery. They Major was right when he said that any other city would get relief quicker. He’s just full of himself because of the reason why. New Orleans is stinking rich in river traffic but dirt poor in truck transport. And by that I’m referring to the surrounding area. It is a city by itself geographically. The heavy hitters would be Dallas/Fortworth, Oklahoma city, St Louis, Memphis, Louisville, Atlanta, Nashville…. etc… Those are the kind of cities with freight hubs that could serve New Orleans. I’m not sure if people would react BEFORE the hurricane because they won’t know where it’s going to strike or if the supplies are actually needed. As for helicopters, they’re out there but I think that is the one asset that FEMA is going to have to pay for. I don’t see private charter companies donating a limited asset that they could lose. Owning an expensive helicopter does not mean it generates great wealth. It’s also something people aren’t going to want to donate to privately if it involves flying great distances (locally yes). The kind of helicopters that would be most useful are military units and I have no real knowledge of how they’re deployed or in what quantity. I would expect a significant number of Coast Guard copters along the coast so their should be something to draw from. I read news stories about them so I know they were used. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/263 "2005-09-04T04:34:36Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Sorry I’m stepping in a little late, but they apparently wouldn’t have had to “ask” FedEx, or anyone else for that mater, for “donated” equipment, nor would they be “illegally committing equipment,” according to “The Mayor’s mandatory evacuation order, issued through the Civil District Court for the Parish of Orleans, [which, in part,] declares:” So the phone call to FedEx could’ve actually gone, "“Hey, GIVE us 1000 trucks,” and they would’ve had to, by legal order. > > [http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2005/08/mayor-orders-new-orleans-evacuated.php](http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2005/08/mayor-orders-new-orleans-evacuated.php) 1. The order refers to evacuation, not going back in with supplies. 2. The order reaches only the bounderies of the parish of Orleans. I doubt FedEx had 1,000 trucks there. 3. The example was simply to show that logistical problems arise. Even if they got the trucks: who buys the fuel? Who drives them? All problems that have to be solved. Was the federal reponse perfect? Nope. Acceptable? Nope. An easy problem for anyone to handle? NO. And that’s what I’m reacting to here. We have a right to expect people in place to solve difficult problems; they should have done so here. But don’t characterize this as “not rocket science.” It _IS_ rocket science. We hired people that should have been competent rocket scientists, and they weren’t. That’s fair criticism. But “not rocket science” isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/264 "2005-09-04T05:23:31Z")
Yes, the logistics of emergency aid are staggering. But that is why the authorities should **have the details worked out in advance.** This isn’t our first BBQ. I don’t see any reason why things like “who buys the fuel” can’t be part of a contingency plan already in place. Out here (in CA) we deal with earthquakes, for which there is ZERO warning. That’s a difficult problem. But we know there are hurricanes in the Southeast every year. We can’t predict exactly when or where, but we actually have a pretty good idea, and we’ve been preparing for and cleaning up from them for over 100 years. And, we generally know 2-3 days in advance when one is going to hit. Response should be immediate. I’m still wondering, though, how the roles of the different agencies (local/state vs federal) are defined. For example, who ordered the evacuation of N.O.? Was it the mayor, the governor, or some federal authority? Who authorized the use of city sturctures (Superdome, Civic Center) as shelters and who decides what will and will not be at these shelters? Seems like the ball was dropped at all levels (local, state and federal). ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/265 "2005-09-04T06:20:34Z")
I should have known you would find some way to make excuses, Rick. Sorry, but the fact of the matter is, disaster recovery operations isn’t even in the same stratosphere as rocket science. I expect our elected officials to be smart enough, and take time enough, to sit down for however many days, weeks, months or years to brainstorm a fucking plan in the event of exactly such an incident as this. And in fact, I would be right, as lo and behold, here it is! \*\*[SOUTHEAST STATE OF LOUISIANA EMERGENCY OPERATIONS PLAN SOUTHEAST LOUISIANA HURRICANE EVACUATION AND SHELTERING PLAN]([http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf](http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf)) \*\* ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/266 "2005-09-04T07:00:51Z")
\*\*Tom \*\* you responded to my examples but missed my main point. I think that was my fault for the way I set up the post. I was trying to say that racism is rarely definitively attributable to a single act but is mainly about the convergence of forces that lead one group of people to be consistently disadvantaged. And that those forces range from simply being the most vulnerable to bad luck, to neglect, to (on occasion) outright malice. And that it’s usually impossible to dissect and label each force down to exact motivations of individual actors. It’s as if we were in a storm and you asked me to prove what caused each gust. I can’t. I can only point to the winds and say that overall they seem mostly seem to go in the same direction. They’re non-random. (Forgive me if you find this analogy in poor taste - it’s the one in my head for obvious reasons) The only reason to prove motivation is to accuse or exonerate individuals. But that’s really not helpful and really not the point. Sometimes it’s not obvious that minorities and the underclass aren’t shouting “you’re neglecting us,” so much as “we’re being neglected!” The result is all that really matters. And I think most of the Congressional Black Caucus was rather careful not to accuse any individual or institutions of racism. Some chose not to bring race into it at all. But others were saying - look who is dying here - the poor, the aged, and minorities - and we have to change the forces at work. I did give some examples of what I considered to be clear ways in which this group of people were being preferentially neglected. Again I’m trying to describe forces here. I’m pointing out winds that went in a certain direction, not trying to prove what caused them. The motivations are almost certainly multifactorial and are in any case not something we can really know - certainly not “prove” (which you nevertheless asked me to do in order to admit the possibility of racism). Still I’ll take on some of your arguments because while I can’t prove that racial bias was the case in any individual action, I certainly think your contention that the most plausible explanation is that purely random forces are at work in each case is very strained. > [@Tomndeb](#): > > As noted earlier, the same levees (originally) protected the wealth and property of the richest people and corporations in that same city, corporations that need to survive and stay profitable both for the sake of the city and the sake of the country. THe racial bias here doesn’t involve a smoke-filled room. Nobody said “bah let New Orleans drown.” What more likely was relevant was that a poor majority black city (even with some white people and some corporate interest) just doesn’t have the visibility or political pull of other cities in the federal government. As a Bostonian benefiting from a $15 billion Big Dig which was purely to ease traffic congestion I have to admit I’m stunned that New Orleans didn’t get whatever it needed to allow it’s long term survival. > [@](#): > > Is it racism? Classism? Simple failure of imagination? The greater lack of planning was due to institutional changes at FEMA–changes that would have prevented any similar planning for Las Vegas or Seattle, neiither of which could be called “poor black” cities. Nevertheless the people affected in most cities by that oversight would have been poor and black. So I don’t see how it supports your argument at all. > [@](#): > > home has been destroyed, he does not yet know whether his family has survived, and he had (at that point), gone three days with no solid food and very little sleep. Now it may have been a very clear case of racism, either conscious or unconscious… I’m not in the least interested in labelling some poor bastard racist.I’m interested in cumulative and systemic effects. > [@](#): > > Now, racism probably did play a part in determining that the overwhelming number of people suffering without food or water were black. However, that racism was probably more the longstanding racist conditions that have contributed to the creation of a permanent underclass, not the specific actions of the administration, Congress, the governor, or the mayor in this particular instance (which was the point of the OP). See I think the “racist conditions” are just an accumulation of the same type of ambiguous events that happened during the hurricane. If you went back and dissected most factors that led to those conditions (especially in recent decades) you couldn’t \*prove \* racist intent. But overall we find an effect where certain classes of the population are preferentially neglected, and are systematically disadvantaged. Even if no individual may have desired it. And if you read carefully you’ll notice that the OP was just as careful as most of the CBC not attribute racist “motivation” to anyone. He said this is what it is to be poor and black in this country. And he’s quite right. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/267 "2005-09-04T15:13:56Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > I should have known you would find some way to make excuses, Rick. > > Sorry, but the fact of the matter is, disaster recovery operations isn’t even in the same stratosphere as rocket science. I expect our elected officials to be smart enough, and take time enough, to sit down for however many days, weeks, months or years to brainstorm a fucking plan in the event of exactly such an incident as this. And in fact, I would be right, as lo and behold, here it is! Well, if your ire is directed at state officials, I understand your point. From your cite: > [@](#): > > The Southeast Louisiana Hurricane Evacuation and Sheltering Plan is > intended to provide a framework within which the parishes can coordinate > their actions with State government in order to deal with a catastrophic > hurricane. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/268 "2005-09-04T17:25:23Z")
From Shayna’s link, it looks like most of the plan was followed, however one key piece was not. From the Assumptions > [@](#): > > The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating. At the first two levels of evacuation, Voluntary and Recommended, the at-risk Parish is supposed to announce staging areas for people without transportation to gather and be helped out of town via public transportation. By the time it is mandatory, those staging areas become “last resort refuges”, like the Superdome. I don’t know what, if any, public transportation was made available for evacuees, but I know for damn sure that I saw a flooded parking lot full of school buses on drudgereport. The buses I saw in that one picture could carry about 7,000 people to safety. That one thing, just 3 paragraphs in their 40+ page plan, caused there to be potentially tens of thousands of additional people caught in the storm. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/269 "2005-09-04T18:13:02Z")
> [@](#): > > I certainly think your contention that the most plausible explanation is that purely random forces are at work in each case is very strained. I have not made a claim for “purely random forces.” I have simply noted that the evidence of racism does not seem to have the evidence behind it that cronyism (in picking FEMA directors), a starry-eyed view of privatization, and a need to spend money on other administration priorities in Iraq (reducing the funds spent on the CoE projects and FEMA) had. The overall racism under which 150+ years of problems have accumulated are real and I do not dispute that. But there are _particular_ issues regarding _this_ storm that do not seem to be the result of racist decisions for which cries of racism seem to be more distracting than helpful. > [@](#): > > Nobody said “bah let New Orleans drown.” What more likely was relevant was that a poor majority black city (even with some white people and some corporate interest) just doesn’t have the visibility or political pull of other cities in the federal government. Had you made this observation regarding Detroit or Cleveland, I might have agreed with you. The cities are very spread out with all the major financial players in those cities located either in enclaves that are geographically protected from disasters or are not even there. (Ford is in Dearborn, Chrysler-Daimler is mostly in Oakland County, Volkswagen is in Macomb County; only GM is still in Detroit, forted up in the Renaissance Center. All the major players from Cleveland are in the Eastern suburbs (or Texas).) In contrast, the port of New Orleans is extremely important for oil transportation (which has some connection to the current administration) and all the financial assets are stuck in a loop of the Mississippi with only an extra foot of elevation over sea level. A disaster that hits New Orleans, regardless how poor and black its majority citizens are, has a direct impact on the nation’s economy–as a glance at your local gas station will reveal. > [@](#): > > Nevertheless the people affected in most cities by that oversight would have been poor and black. So I don’t see how it supports your argument at all. Actually, I named Seattle for a reason. It is still overwhelmingly white, and the Feds have done little to nothing to address the issue of handling a re-awakening of Mt. Ranier which would produce a Pinatubo-like disaster aimed directly at Seattle and Boeing (and, perhaps the Naval base at Bremerton) with Tacoma also sitting in harm’s way. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/270 "2005-09-04T18:36:58Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > So the phone call to FedEx could’ve actually gone, "“Hey, GIVE us 1000 trucks,” and they would’ve had to, by legal order. Only those trucks that were IN Louisiana, at best. The governor does not have _imperium_ beyond her state’s borders. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/271 "2005-09-05T03:27:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, if your ire is directed at state officials, I understand your point. From your cite: [I do](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6544456&postcount=59), [indeed](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6544541&postcount=68), [direct plenty of ire](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6544613&postcount=72) [at state (and local) officials](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6544898&postcount=79), so I’m glad we have an understanding. But I’m sure you knew that, seeing as how it was the state’s plan I linked to, and centered in giant, bold lettering. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/272 "2005-09-05T21:15:56Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > BTW, how white were the bus staff of Windows of the World? How rich were the police and firefighters? I came in here to see if anybody had said this, and I’m glad **JR** did. The whole line of thought is offensive and ignorant. I had no idea that you turn into a rich white guy just by working in an office building! Who knew? I thought they had janitors and temps and interns and shit! I thought I read that people from a dozens of countries died at the Trade Center! Man, I even thought I spent Thursday night interviewing volunteer firefighters who lost friends that day! Thank goodness **Sequent** set me straight. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/273 "2005-09-05T21:27:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Thank goodness **Sequent** set me straight. Sequent’s back, to set you straight. Answer: The WTC Victims were [75.9% WHITE](http://66.223.12.161/september11Victims/wtc_statistics.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/274 "2005-09-05T21:33:28Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > Sequent’s back, to set you straight. > > Answer: The WTC Victims were [75.9% WHITE](http://66.223.12.161/september11Victims/wtc_statistics.htm) This sets me straight how? How many of them were RICH? And did you ever conjure up a stat about how many white people live in southern Louisiana and Mississippi? ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/275 "2005-09-05T21:46:07Z")
Yes, and I’ll say thanks to **JRDelirious** for what I consider one of the most thoughtful rebuttals here. I’ve had less time to respond recently, but I’ve been reading and appreciate almost everybody’s contributions. [Somehow,](http://comment.independent.co.uk/leading_articles/article310245.ece)[I’ve](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,21131-1766253,00.html) [felt](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/opinion/05krugman.html?incamp=article_popular_2)[less](http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/04/katrina.blame/index.html)[compelled](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/03/opinion/03dowd.html?incamp=article_popular) to keep arguing a point, which now is becoming, to the rest of the world, obvious. But for now, I’m just really sad, and ashamed, and trying, in the only way I can ($), to help. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/276 "2005-09-05T21:50:46Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > [Somehow,](http://comment.independent.co.uk/leading_articles/article310245.ece)[I’ve](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,21131-1766253,00.html) [felt](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/opinion/05krugman.html?incamp=article_popular_2)[less](http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/04/katrina.blame/index.html)[compelled](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/03/opinion/03dowd.html?incamp=article_popular) to keep arguing a point, which now is becoming, to the rest of the world, obvious. “Race and class played a role in this?” Is that what you’ve decided your point was? A statement of the obvious would not have been so controversial. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/277 "2005-09-05T22:04:18Z")
And a special shout-out to **Bricker** in thanks for all his posts, even though we disagree. In case anyone didn’t see it, you should check out his [home emergency kit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6536778&postcount=23) in GQ. FEMA Director Bricker might not be a bad idea after all… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/278 "2005-09-06T14:18:14Z")
NY Times has provided a very good Demographic & elevation tool. [http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/national/2005\_HURRICANEKATRINA\_GRAPHIC/index.html](http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/national/2005_HURRICANEKATRINA_GRAPHIC/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/279 "2005-09-06T14:24:07Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > NY Times has provided a very good Demographic & elevation tool. > [http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/national/2005\_HURRICANEKATRINA\_GRAPHIC/index.html](http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/national/2005_HURRICANEKATRINA_GRAPHIC/index.html) The Week in Review section notes that 28% of New Orleans residents live in poverty, and that 84% of those people are black. Racial and social issues? Sure. Whitey not giving a damn about poor black people? Not so much. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/280 "2005-09-06T15:16:27Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The Week in Review section notes that 28% of New Orleans residents live in poverty, and that 84% of those people are black. Racial and social issues? Sure. Whitey not giving a damn about poor black people? Not so much. Agreed. I was only providing it as one more tool for people. I was more interested in the Levee and 4 breaks than the demographic, but it looked pertinent to this thread. **Bricker** : I pulled together a large number of facts and attacked logistics problem with real numbers: Would you be willing to concede that maybe we could have called for voluntary help and gotten supplies moving a lot quicker than we did? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749.md?page=15)