# Q: How many poor, black Katrina victims does it take to equal one rich 9/11 victim? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 2, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749 "2005-09-02T16:17:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/281 "2005-09-06T16:42:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This sets me straight how? How many of them were RICH? And did you ever conjure up a stat about how many white people live in southern Louisiana and Mississippi? The question had been asked several times, how white were the WTC victims? I found a factual answer and posted the link. Obviously, you’ll draw your own conclusions, but in the sense that at least the question has been answered in a much more accurate way than either your personal 9/11 experiences or mine could address, this sets us both straight. I have no answer as to how rich they were; nor an answer to your other question. Earlier in the thread, a figure was posted for the population of the 9th ward of New Orleans: 98.3% black. The 9th ward, by all accounts so far, was home to nearly all the people stranded at the Superdome and the Convention Center. A general figure for the black population of New Orleans as a whole is 67%. > [@Marley23](#): > > “Race and class played a role in this?” Is that what you’ve decided your point was? A statement of the obvious would not have been so controversial. No, _you’ve_ decided that’s what my point was. I agree that the above is a rather pedestrian conclusion. Part of the problem is, I’ve been arguing several points in this thread, not all of which I intended to. If you look around, there are a number of prominent black leaders now arguing that racism played a much more acute role in this than the OP suggests. There are some, such as Jesse Jackson, whose positions are very hard for even me to swallow. > [@Marley23](#): > > Racial and social issues? Sure. Whitey not giving a damn about poor black people? Not so much. Again, let me say that I feel like there’s an attitude among some here that if we don’t see burning crosses, we must not have racism. Your quote above suggests that you’re _not_ in that boat, that you understand it’s a much more complex issue than that. So explain to me…who is “Whitey”? The President? All white people? Jim Crow? Because depending on who you mean, I might actually agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/282 "2005-09-06T19:36:55Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > Again, let me say that I feel like there’s an attitude among some here that if we don’t see burning crosses, we must not have racism. This is the second time you’ve made this ridiculous claim. I’d be delighted to know what the factual backdrop is for you to have come to this conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/283 "2005-09-06T20:27:18Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > This is the second time you’ve made this ridiculous claim. I’d be delighted to know what the factual backdrop is for you to have come to this conclusion. Monty, my good man, this is the [second](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6540866&postcount=244)[time](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6538142&postcount=146) you’ve said you were leaving this thread only to subsequently return. For someone so quick to accuse me of “dishonest” posting, you’re setting quite the example. But welcome back, I guess. Again. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/284 "2005-09-06T20:27:48Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Agreed. I was only providing it as one more tool for people. > I was more interested in the Levee and 4 breaks than the demographic, but it looked pertinent to this thread. > > **Bricker** : I pulled together a large number of facts and attacked logistics problem with real numbers: Would you be willing to concede that maybe we could have called for voluntary help and gotten supplies moving a lot quicker than we did? Voluntary help was on the way as soon as the need appeared (after the storm). Federal help was already pre-staged and ready to go. FEMA had material set up in cities like Mobile Alabama (2 1/2 hrs away) which is where it needs to be. Not only did the Mayor not relocate the indigent and disabled out of harms way there was a tremendous number of people who did not leave. They evacuated over 22,000 people in a week. Think about that number for a moment. An HH-60 Jayhawk helicopter is designed to rescue 6 people at a time. If it takes 5 minutes per person then that’s 30 minutes per extraction. If the drop-off zone is 15 minutes away that’s an hour per every 6 people rescued. That’s 3,333 sorties. I don’t know what a Jayhawk burns per hour but the Dolphins burn 68 gallons. That’s more than 200,000 gallons of fuel burned for rescue. There are 40 Coast Guard Aircraft in the area. Doesn’t sound like much? They only have 80 HH-65 Dolphins and 35 HH-60 JayHawks in active service. That means 35 % of all available Coast Guard rescue helicopters have been pressed into use. In total, there are 300 helicopters in the arena doing rescue and repair. That’s a LOT of helicopters pulled out of active duty. This is probably going to be the largest rescue operation in the history of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/285 "2005-09-06T20:42:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Voluntary help was on the way as soon as the need appeared (after the storm). Federal help was already pre-staged and ready to go. FEMA had material set up in cities like Mobile Alabama (2 1/2 hrs away) which is where it needs to be. > > Not only did the Mayor not relocate the indigent and disabled out of harms way there was a tremendous number of people who did not leave. They evacuated over 22,000 people in a week. Think about that number for a moment. An HH-60 Jayhawk helicopter is designed to rescue 6 people at a time. If it takes 5 minutes per person then that’s 30 minutes per extraction. If the drop-off zone is 15 minutes away that’s an hour per every 6 people rescued. That’s 3,333 sorties. I don’t know what a Jayhawk burns per hour but the Dolphins burn 68 gallons. That’s more than 200,000 gallons of fuel burned for rescue. > > There are 40 Coast Guard Aircraft in the area. Doesn’t sound like much? They only have 80 HH-65 Dolphins and 35 HH-60 JayHawks in active service. That means 35 % of all available Coast Guard rescue helicopters have been pressed into use. In total, there are 300 helicopters in the arena doing rescue and repair. That’s a LOT of helicopters pulled out of active duty. This is probably going to be the largest rescue operation in the history of the United States. I’m impressed; I could scrape up the helicopter details. I was wondering if there were any military helicopters that could have been brought in sooner. The Volunteer effort I was referring to was utilizing volunteer truckers & FedEx & etc to move supplies were needed. The Supplies to Texas for the evacuees was lagging and probably could have been greatly improved. Every story about FEMA turning away Wal-Marts trucks because they just showed up increases my ire. So the first stage failure to evacuate all those non-whites was by the non-white mayor and the democratic governor. I am still convinced that the city, state & Feds need to all share the blame and that the failure was not racist. Mayor: did not do a great job Governor was Clueless and looked clueless on her long interview on CNN on Tuesday night. FEMA: Biggest idiot ever!!! Bush & Congress: Wow, biggest natural disaster ever in USA, maybe we should get around to ending our vacations and doing something. Putting FEMA under Homeland Security: gee a rapid response group is now buried under many new layers of red tape. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/286 "2005-09-06T21:04:31Z")
My curiosity overcame me. Now, do you happen to have any actual facts to prove your assertion? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/287 "2005-09-06T22:53:46Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > My curiosity overcame me. Now, do you happen to have any actual facts to prove your assertion? Who are you asking and what assertion are you questioning? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/288 "2005-09-06T23:11:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Who are you asking and what assertion are you questioning? Monty was responding to **Sequent**. What sight did you use to find helicopter data? That one stumped me and you had great details. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/289 "2005-09-07T02:44:04Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Monty was responding to **Sequent**. > > What sight did you use to find helicopter data? > That one stumped me and you had great details. I was all over the web trying to find this so I hope you appreciate the fact that I have dial-up. Please note there is a certain amount of license as to what is purely New Orleans and what is in other locations. I tried to round down in an attempt to reflect the events in the city. I believe a lot of the airborne equipment was diverted to New Orleans from surrounding areas after the levees broke but I can’t verify that at this time. As of yesterday afternoon, [22,800 people had been rescued](http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aAXWfdM2pOEc&refer=top_world_news) This number is the most vague as it does not specify if any were boat related. The first 2 days would have been almost exclusively by helicopter due to rioting (specifically the hospitals). I originally downloaded a [complete listing of all the Coast Guard aircraft](http://www.wunclub.com/files/uscg_air.html) into Excel and then converted it to over to a pivot table but then I found [this site.](http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/waf/usa/uscg-home.htm) Information on the short range [HH-65 Dolphin](http://www.uscg.mil/hq/atcmobil/popdiv/scifaq.html) including fuel burn and range. Unfortunately, I couldn’t find what I wanted on the Jayhawks. Those are the Medium range helicopters you usually see in spectacular sea rescues. The total # of helicopters involved in the disaster is [374](http://www.rotor.com/) not including civilian models (which is not known). Not all of these are in New Orleans so I lowered my number to 300. More than [40 Coast Guard aircraft](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050829/ap_on_re_us/katrina_washington) from units along the entire Eastern Seaboard, along with more than 30 small boats, patrol boats and cutters, were positioned around the area to be ready to conduct post-hurricane search and rescue operations and to do waterway damage checks and begin any needed repairs. ---
**Author:** ![ainigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4491bb/32.png) [@ainigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ainigma)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/290 "2005-09-07T06:59:03Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > You guys do know that racism comes in more forms than “Those Black people suck. Let’s ruin their lives!”, right? > > Race is a part of who lives where, which is a part of who is poor and who is not, which is a part of who owns a car and who doesn’t, which is a part of who got out of the path of a hurricane and who didn’t. > > Race is a part of what gets shown on television, which is a part of how people percieve an event, which is a part of how people view the politicians involved in that event, which is a part of how polticians react to an event. > > It’s not about individuals. It’s about broken systems- or systems that are more broken for one portion of the population than for another. This is what I believe also. It has nothing to do with the color of their skin but with the balance of their bank account, in other words discrimination, not racism(same shit different name). There was a reporter (CNN) ouside a public hospital that had 200 patients to be evacuated and was saying that a few hundred metres down the road where a private hospital stood every one had been evacuated a day earlier by helicopters…and he meant everyone including the stuff, while in the public hospital they were dying. we are all equal (blacks and whites) but some are more equal than others ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/291 "2005-09-07T14:52:00Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > **Bricker** : I pulled together a large number of facts and attacked logistics problem with real numbers: Would you be willing to concede that maybe we could have called for voluntary help and gotten supplies moving a lot quicker than we did? Sure. My only concern remains, though: to what extent would have that early mobilization of “amateur” help gotten in the way of the massive “professional” response that took longer to get rolling but was ultimately more far-reaching and complete in nature? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/292 "2005-09-07T14:54:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure. My only concern remains, though: to what extent would have that early mobilization of “amateur” help gotten in the way of the massive “professional” response that took longer to get rolling but was ultimately more far-reaching and complete in nature? Valid point, but the extra food & cots at the various Texas arena’s would have helped a lot. Same for the extra water & food at Baton Rouge. There were several days were none of this was in place yet and could have been. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/293 "2005-09-07T15:06:34Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Valid point, but the extra food & cots at the various Texas arena’s would have helped a lot. > Same for the extra water & food at Baton Rouge. There were several days were none of this was in place yet and could have been. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/294 "2005-09-10T20:43:32Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I have not made a claim for “purely random forces.” I have simply noted that the evidence of racism does not seem to have the evidence behind it that cronyism (in picking FEMA directors), a starry-eyed view of privatization, and a need to spend money on other administration priorities in Iraq (reducing the funds spent on the CoE projects and FEMA) had. > > The overall racism under which 150+ years of problems have accumulated are real and I do not dispute that. But there are _particular_ issues regarding _this_ storm that do not seem to be the result of racist decisions for which cries of racism seem to be more distracting than helpful. > > Had you made this observation regarding Detroit or Cleveland, I might have agreed with you. The cities are very spread out with all the major financial players in those cities located either in enclaves that are geographically protected from disasters or are not even there. (Ford is in Dearborn, Chrysler-Daimler is mostly in Oakland County, Volkswagen is in Macomb County; only GM is still in Detroit, forted up in the Renaissance Center. All the major players from Cleveland are in the Eastern suburbs (or Texas).) > In contrast, the port of New Orleans is extremely important for oil transportation (which has some connection to the current administration) and all the financial assets are stuck in a loop of the Mississippi with only an extra foot of elevation over sea level. A disaster that hits New Orleans, regardless how poor and black its majority citizens are, has a direct impact on the nation’s economy–as a glance at your local gas station will reveal. > Actually, I named Seattle for a reason. It is still overwhelmingly white, and the Feds have done little to nothing to address the issue of handling a re-awakening of Mt. Ranier which would produce a Pinatubo-like disaster aimed directly at Seattle and Boeing (and, perhaps the Naval base at Bremerton) with Tacoma also sitting in harm’s way. OK you’ve done a fair job of defending the motivations of the decisions, and I’ll concede that point to you. But you’ve still bypassed my main point. Which is that motivations are not terribly relevant. I think the fundamental point of confusion here is the term racism. Any time that someone brings up race, people think that they’re making an accusation of racist intent. In effect the logic is: an observation about racial disparity = accusation of racism = an accusation of racist motivation. But it is possible to have a highly segregated society with no intention among the people for that to be the case. Structures and policies can still systematically discriminate against a group of people just by overlooking their particular circumstances. If you listen carefully to the original OP, and to me, and to most of the CBC and _even to Kanye West_ the term “racism” is not very much in evidence. The language is mostly - look these are the people who are being neglected. These people are the ones who are dying, etc. We have to change the system. You’re rebuttal though still addresses almost exclusively motivation. You think if you can show that there was no conscious or unconscious desire to discriminate on the basis of race then there is no racial preference. If the origin isn’t racism - but is cronyism, mismanagement, etc.- then the effects can’t be racially biased. But that’s not necessarily the way it works out. The fact is that poor black people are seeing the effects and are inferring the motivation. White middle class people are seeing the motivation and ignoring the effects. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/295 "2005-09-10T21:16:36Z")
So, is it or is it not racism that has resulted in no adequate planning being done for the eventual eruption of Mt. Ranier? I’m not sure that I am actually focusing on motivation. I certainly acknowldege that institutional racism (in which motivation is not really a factor) exists. The problem is that it seems to me that we gain no benefit (as in preventing repeats of this disaster) by focusing on the fact that a disproportionate number of people who were harmed were black. What does claiming “racism” do to change our behavior to prevent this in the future? Do we choose to never address an evacuation plan for Seattle so as to even out the problems? Do we go into New Orleans and give all the poor black survivors extra help while ignoring the poor white survivors? I am not a fan of the twits who claim that “they could have gotten out if they had wanted to” or “this is America and anyone who fails makes their own decisions to fail.” Certainly, the Gretna cops who held (black) people inside New Orleans, then crossed into New Orleans to destroy their refugee camp were acting on racist impulses. But leveling charges of racism at Bush or Republicans or politicians does not change anything. Unless we have a specific racist action that can be reversed (or, in the case of Gretna, I hope punished), we need to focus on ways to raise all people from the underclass, making sure that we do not (deliberately or inadvertantly) put racial barriers in the way of people trying to escape. Raising the spectre of racism with no evidence of actual racist decisions simply provides ammunition for the people who claim that cries of racism are merely people crying “Wolf!” and can be ignored as pleas for special treatment. Then, when an actual racist decision is made, the greater public ignores accusations against it as just one more false cry. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/296 "2005-09-12T02:02:29Z")
> [@](#): > > **Tom** : You think if you can show that there was no conscious or unconscious desire to discriminate on the basis of race then there is no racial preference. I am reminded of this exchange between Lorre and Bogart in _Casablanca_: > [@](#): > > Ugarte: You despise me, don’t you? > Rick Blaine: If I gave you any thought I probably would. ---
**Author:** ![grayhairedmomma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/47e85d/32.png) [@grayhairedmomma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grayhairedmomma)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/297 "2005-09-12T15:13:50Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The problem is that it seems to me that we gain no benefit (as in preventing repeats of this disaster) by focusing on the fact that a disproportionate number of people who were harmed were black. What does claiming “racism” do to change our behavior to prevent this in the future? For a fleeting moment, my hope was that maybe it would wake people up - black and white. Maybe we could have addressed the effects of institutional racism and classism and made a serious effort to wipe it out in all depressed areas in the country. Not that I think that there would be no more poor people and the United State would become some sort of utopia, but maybe that people would be given a real opportunity to obtain a better life. Maybe real solutions to the problems facing poor blacks and whites would finally be addressed. But as is evident here, nothing is going to change. People will just continue to say those black people are just trying to get something for nothing by playing the race card. They’ll bury their heads in the sand again. This was a real opportunity for us to grow as a country. I don’t believe that the majority of white people in this country are racists. I must say that it feels really good to see all of the individual donations and people taking the evacuees in and giving them back their humanity and dignity. It feels really good for once to actually feel like the majority of individuals in this country actually see a large group of blacks and see them as people. And isn’t it a shame that in 2005 that’s a thought that crosses my mind? When will this be over? For which of my descendants will any form of racism be truly in the past? ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/298 "2005-09-13T17:35:04Z")
For all of you who said no one would debate that this was handled well… Au contraire! On Sunday, Jack Kelly, a columnist who writes for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (a mere several hundred miles from the devastation) claims that this was “the most monumental and successful disaster relief operation in world history.” ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/299 "2005-09-13T18:11:46Z")
> [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](#): > > For all of you who said no one would debate that this was handled well… Au contraire! > > On Sunday, Jack Kelly, a columnist who writes for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (a mere several hundred miles from the devastation) claims that this was “the most monumental and successful disaster relief operation in world history.” Only because I am a glutton for punishment, can you cite this? If true Jack Kelly must be a idiot. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/300 "2005-09-13T18:48:58Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Only because I am a glutton for punishment, can you cite this? > > If true Jack Kelly must be a idiot. You can enjoy the man’s wisdom firsthand, my friend. His comment about this being the most successful ever is two short paragraphs above his bullet points. [http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05254/568876.stm](http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05254/568876.stm) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749.md?page=16)