# Q: How many poor, black Katrina victims does it take to equal one rich 9/11 victim? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 2, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749 "2005-09-02T16:17:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/121 "2005-09-02T22:01:09Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > That said, you mention terrain…how does this affect an airplane flying over a city? Please re-read my earlier post on air dropping supplies. An aircraft in the air does no good to those on the ground. They have to drop things to the terrain below in order to affect a situation. Tripler Again man, you have to think in three dimensions here. ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/122 "2005-09-02T22:04:18Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > I find it hard to believe that all the MREs being passed out today were manufactured within the past 48 hours. I find it impossible to believe that putting water into bottles requires massive logistical planning. Large caches waiting to be scooped up? Maybe not enough for 50,000, or not enough for 20,000, but enough to save some lives. Which we knew would be the best we could hope for if those people were going to have to live in squalor for four days. You do understand that you are obviously guessing here right? That you have no knowledge of what it actually (in real life I mean) takes to plan and implement such an operation. You seem to be saying that you know they should/could have and you think the reason they didn’t is because there are mostly black people and …what??? the cone heads in the white house wanted the niggers to suffer a bit and make cleanup worse before they did anything? I don’t know what it takes for them to do what they are doing either. I _do_ know that I find the response unacceptable. it infuriates me that there are thousands of helpless American citizens suffering for most of a week and the US government seems virtually incapable of giving them needed relief. It sickens me that even after all of the Homeland Security preparedness hype that if a major disaster struck my city that I could not count on my government to help me when I needed it most. But what really makes my Cheerios taste like piss is when people like you and the CBC (black caucus) want to insert your politics into such an overwhelming tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/123 "2005-09-02T22:04:26Z")
Again: “groups prepared to supply food and water poised in a semicircle around the city.” Seems pretty clear to me. I mean, I might not know anything about military logistics, but I’d hope Mr. Brown does. Apparently, he thought it was possible, logistics and terrain notwithstanding. So if I agree with you guys that it really was impossible, I’m essentially concluding that the FEMA director is either a liar or completely incompetent. Which brings me right back to the original point: I have a hard time believing our military and homeland security departments are incompetent. ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/124 "2005-09-02T22:11:04Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > Again: “groups prepared to supply food and water poised in a semicircle around the city.” Seems pretty clear to me. I mean, I might not know anything about military logistics, but I’d hope Mr. Brown does. Apparently, he thought it was possible, logistics and terrain notwithstanding. So if I agree with you guys that it really was impossible, I’m essentially concluding that the FEMA director is either a liar or completely incompetent. Which brings me right back to the original point: I have a hard time believing our military and homeland security departments are incompetent. But you want us to believe they are homicidal racist and that is the reason. Well that is a relief. Since I live in the Denver Tech Center and there are alot of rich white folk here I should get an airlift from Marine One the day before anything happens here. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/125 "2005-09-02T22:11:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Although obviously he has no exact count, he estimates more than 10,000 people are packed into and around and outside the convention center still waiting for the buses. They had no food, no water, and no medicine for the last three days, until today, when the National Guard drove over the bridge above them, and tossed out supplies over the side crashing down to the ground below. Much of the supplies were destroyed from the drop. Many people tried to catch the supplies to protect them before they hit the ground. Some offered to walk all the way around up the bridge and bring the supplies down, but any attempt to approach the police or national guard resulted in weapons being aimed at them. I may not know much about the art of military logistics, but if this is the best we can do, I’m pretty sure I could match our efforts with a Cessna and a trip to Sam’s Club. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/126 "2005-09-02T22:14:10Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > But you want us to believe they are homicidal racist and that is the reason. Hmmm…you seem to be arguing with _somebody_, but I don’t know who that is… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/127 "2005-09-02T22:14:14Z")
> [@](#): > > So if I agree with you guys that it really was impossible, I’m essentially concluding that the FEMA director is either a liar or completely incompetent. Which brings me right back to the original point: I have a hard time believing our military and homeland security departments are incompetent. Why? Read a few of the other threads on the topic. Brown had no experience in disaster management before he was given his post as a political favor for fundraising efforts. FEMA dissolved the internal department specifically created to address such situations as this one as one of the earliest efforts by Brown’s predecessor (also appointed for his ability to manage campaigns, not disasters). Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/128 "2005-09-02T22:14:15Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > Which brings me right back to the original point: I have a hard time believing our military and homeland security departments are incompetent. And aside from the politicians doing their yakkety-yak, I agree with you. The military and its civilian leadership _do_ know what they’re doing. But it’s like baseball: We can’t call the next pitch a “ball” or “strike” until it crosses the plate. So, if you’d like to share what you see in your crystal ball with me, I’ll happily forward that up my chain of command. Tripler No, really, I will. And I’ll call our Intel section of “Miss Cleo” to confirm everything. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/129 "2005-09-02T22:15:59Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > the cone heads in the white house wanted the niggers to suffer a bit and make cleanup worse before they did anything? ok, **tomndebb** , I think I need a refresher on forum rules. How is the above less offensive than my earlier remark? ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/130 "2005-09-02T22:21:27Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > So, if you’d like to share what you see in your crystal ball with me, I’ll happily forward that up my chain of command. No problem. Looking into the same crystal ball I did on Tuesday, when I magically learned that two more days without food and water would be catastrophic to the victims already on the edge in New Orleans, I see…a major hurricane will directly hit New Orleans within the next 50 years. I see…people stranded…hungry…needing food and water. Call Cleo for details. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/131 "2005-09-02T22:21:33Z")
> [@](#): > > by **Sequent** > People in the hurricane community have been talking about New Orleans for years. It’s been the quintessential example of the ultimate hurricane disaster waiting-to-happen. Then it would seem that the flaw lies in New Orleans itself, in that it totally failed to prepare for this, not in the rest of the country, which was taken off guard and probably thought no one would build a coastal city below sea level. Heck, I never thought about it. I never particularly thought about New Orleans being a “black city,” either. > [@](#): > > You’re telling me that if Bush had said, on Wednesday, “I want air drops over that city NOW,” his military advisors would have told him it’s simply not possible? “No sir, Mr. Commander-in-Chief, we can’t do that. We’ll be there Friday, though.” Yes. It takes time to move air stock, get the right fuel ready, pack the food, identify good target zones, and then make the mission. Sure, you can randomly drop them sporadically, but what good would that do? > [@](#): > > I find it hard to believe that all the MREs being passed out today were manufactured within the past 48 hours. Yes, but they have to be moved from the holding areas, packed into the right kind of boxes, and get parachutes attachted. All that stuff has to be moved into the same place and hands gotten to do it. And no one particularly expected to be doing this on Tuesday morning. > [@](#): > > I have a hard time believing our military and homeland security departments are incompetent. Not incompetent: Slow. The bigger an organization becomes, the harder it becomes to coordinate. It was probably not until Tuesday evening, at best, that Fema actually understood the scale of need. It was probably not until Wednesday morning that they had a plan ready and put it into action. That they got back this fast is a miracle of hard work, supplies, and riches. Seriously, **Sequent** I don’t think you quite comprehend just what you are asking. If it really were that easy, don’t you think it would have happened? Is it really probably that Fema hates black people so much that they stand around shooting the breeze watching them suffer… but only for 2 days? ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/132 "2005-09-02T22:22:35Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. True. But I wouldn’t go so far as “malice.” The word I’d choose would be “neglect.” ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/133 "2005-09-02T22:27:46Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > True. But I wouldn’t go so far as “malice.” The word I’d choose would be “neglect.” I’m glad you think what I describe this OP as is offensive too. ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/134 "2005-09-02T22:29:12Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > I’m glad you think what I describe this OP as is offensive too. Should have quoted this > [@](#): > > ok, tomndebb, I think I need a refresher on forum rules. How is the above less offensive than my earlier remark? ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/135 "2005-09-02T22:31:09Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > Yes. It takes time to move air stock, get the right fuel ready, pack the food, identify good target zones, and then make the mission. Sure, you can randomly drop them sporadically, but what good would that do? When the alternative is doing nothing at all? I’ll take a sporadic shot a relief. I think the desperate people on the ground would take one, too. > [@smiling bandit](#): > > And no one particularly expected to be doing this on Tuesday morning. Really? Those supplies were “pre-positioned” for fun? > [@smiling bandit](#): > > Seriously, **Sequent** I don’t think you quite comprehend just what you are asking. If it really were that easy, don’t you think it would have happened? Is it really probably that Fema hates black people so much that they stand around shooting the breeze watching them suffer… but only for 2 days? I’m not asking anything more than what most of the rest of the country is asking. Again, if you think I’m saying FEMA hates black people, I’ll refer you to **AFAIKnow** ’s imaginary thread. All I’m asking is that they do what they said they were prepared to do after the storm. That’s all. Next time, maybe before the media has to shove the truth down the government’s throat. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/136 "2005-09-02T22:31:30Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > With this post, you are assuming that supplies and material were already prepositioned and waiting to be loaded onto aircraft in response to this storm. With Afghanistan, we had months of shipping supplies to central points for loading, and them mobilization of aircraft to move those supplies. In Katrina, we had days. You do the math, and then, maybe you’ll realize it’s an “art”, not a science. Well, no, it’s a science, not an art. Perhaps you do not understand what the word “art” means, but logistics is a logical application of resources to move material from one place to another. There’s nothing terribly artistic about that. > [@](#): > > Those planes could have made it to the Big Easy in 48 hours. But they’d be empty. So why isn’t there a central repository of emergency supplies? The richest nation in the world can’t afford to assemble a warehouse of jugs of water, modular tents, blankets and dried goods within a short drive of an airbase? Christ, you’d think the government had never heard of Wal Mart. Or hurricanes. Does nobody remember Hurricane Andrew? ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/137 "2005-09-02T22:36:31Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > if you think I’m saying FEMA hates black people, I’ll refer you to **AFAIKnow** ’s imaginary thread. All I’m asking is that they do what they said they were prepared to do after the storm. That’s all. Next time, maybe before the media has to shove the truth down the government’s throat. if you are not saying that racism is the reason they are not doing what you think they should do and are willing to let more black people die because they are racist, then what _are_ you saying? And If I am totally off the mark on this then I take back everything I said because I misread your OP and most of your subsequent posts and will apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/138 "2005-09-02T22:39:29Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > ok, **tomndebb** , I think I need a refresher on forum rules. How is the above less offensive than my earlier remark? My guess is because he’s not saying that. It seems to me that he’s saying that that’s what you are saying. And essentially, it seems that’s what you are saying. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/139 "2005-09-02T22:44:28Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > if you are not saying that racism is the reason they are not doing what you think they should do and are willing to let more black people die because they are racist, then what _are_ you saying? And If I am totally off the mark on this then I take back everything I said because I misread your OP and most of your subsequent posts and will apologize. I don’t know why they waited so long to start; I assume they have good reasons. Or like **bandit** said, they’re just slow. I don’t think anybody involved in this effort would purposely withhold help or delay it out of a racist motivation. I’m sure there are many varied and reasonable excuses as to why this took as long as it did, and I don’t think racism is one of them. But I do think racism/classism creates the atmosphere in which such reasonable excuses are tolerated and considered, well, reasonable. I do think that if we were looking at a bunch of stockbrokers sitting in the Superdome, I wouldn’t be hearing nearly as much about the complicated art of military logistics, however well-founded such discussion may be. We’d just get it done. Failure would not be an option. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/140 "2005-09-02T22:46:59Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > My guess is because he’s not saying that. It seems to me that he’s saying that that’s what you are saying. And essentially, it seems that’s what you are saying. Funny, I must have missed a few posts because I simply don’t remember saying “the cone heads in the white house wanted the niggers to suffer a bit and make cleanup worse before they did anything?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749.md?page=8)