# Q: How many poor, black Katrina victims does it take to equal one rich 9/11 victim? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 2, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749 "2005-09-02T16:17:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/141 "2005-09-02T22:48:32Z")
Funny, you must’ve missed the word “essentially” in my post. ---
**Author:** ![OliverTwistofLime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b487fb/32.png) [@OliverTwistofLime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OliverTwistofLime)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/142 "2005-09-02T22:50:45Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > The people who “chose” not to leave had no way to leave. . Please cite your references on this one. While this is true in good part, there were plenty of NO citizens who said they gambled that they would NOT be hit head on by Hurricane Katrina and assumed not much destruction would happen if they did not leave. From what I have read, half of the Jewish population of New Orleans also voluntarily stayed and did not evacuate. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/143 "2005-09-02T22:51:22Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Funny, you must’ve missed the word “essentially” in my post. No, I didn’t. Where did I “essentially” say I blame the racist White House for this? I remember saying that I’d love to be able to blame them, but _couldn’t_ because it doesn’t make sense. Again, the point I made in the OP: if there’s blame to be assigned along these lines, then it goes way beyond the White House or even the government. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/144 "2005-09-02T22:53:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ye gods! > > The difference between NOW and two days ago is dramatic: 48 more hours to plan, activate, mobilize. Again, if you have no understanding of the behind-the-scenes support required to put a helicoper and crew into the air with supplies, then I not-so-respectfully suggest you’re basing your opinion on nothing except a feeling - no concrete understanding of what needs to be done. Cite? It not as hard as you seem to think. We (USS RANGER) could take a helo and get it from the hangar bay to Flight Deck and launch for short missions in 10 minutes. (mission being sea rescues) Let’s see Class 5 hurricane is coming close to New Orleans. Lets get Emergency services at the ready at least. Levee Breaks. Start moving everything you can towards NO, even if it can’t get in, stage it nearby. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/145 "2005-09-02T22:55:35Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well, no, it’s a science, not an art. Perhaps you do not understand what the word “art” means, but logistics is a logical application of resources to move material from one place to another. There’s nothing terribly artistic about that. > So why isn’t there a central repository of emergency supplies? The richest nation in the world can’t afford to assemble a warehouse of jugs of water, modular tents, blankets and dried goods within a short drive of an airbase? Christ, you’d think the government had never heard of Wal Mart. Or hurricanes. Does nobody remember Hurricane Andrew? We used to have such central supply depots. They were called Armories. In the last 15 years they have been getting closed down and store a lot less supplies. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/146 "2005-09-02T22:59:13Z")
Your thesis is that it’s racism at the hear of it. You cannot honestly deny that after you entitled the thread the way you did. I prefer to deal with honest debate. Good day. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/147 "2005-09-02T23:04:25Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Your thesis is that it’s racism at the hear of it. You cannot honestly deny that after you entitled the thread the way you did. I prefer to deal with honest debate. Good day. Correct: racism is at the heart of it, and the thread was titled that way on purpose. That’s still a far, far cry from **AFAIKnow** ’s summation of what he considers my thesis. Some people here–maybe it’s our emphasis on the scientific method and hard evidence and concrete cites–seem to think that unless you’ve got signs saying “whites only” that there must be no racism. We’ve gotten rid of the signs, we’ve passed all the right laws, ergo, we’re color-blind and how could I possibly argue racist undertones without clear, sparkling evidence. So Monty, if you need to see the KKK marching down Canal Street to have an “honest debate” about racism, I submit you don’t know what racism really is. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/148 "2005-09-02T23:09:28Z")
That’s as dishonest a description of my attitude as has ever been made. ---
**Author:** ![yo\_no\_se](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b487fb/32.png) [@yo\_no\_se](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yo_no_se)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/149 "2005-09-02T23:25:41Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > I don’t know why they waited so long to start; I assume they have good reasons. Or like **bandit** said, they’re just slow. I don’t think anybody involved in this effort would purposely withhold help or delay it out of a racist motivation. I’m sure there are many varied and reasonable excuses as to why this took as long as it did, and I don’t think racism is one of them. Couldn’t agree more. ---
**Author:** ![yo\_no\_se](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b487fb/32.png) [@yo\_no\_se](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yo_no_se)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/150 "2005-09-02T23:28:44Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > But I do think racism/classism creates the atmosphere in which such reasonable excuses are tolerated and considered, well, reasonable. I do think that if we were looking at a bunch of stockbrokers sitting in the Superdome, I wouldn’t be hearing nearly as much about the complicated art of military logistics, however well-founded such discussion may be. We’d just get it done. Failure would not be an option. Could not agree less. If THIS prophecy is self-fulfilling, then simply stop phrophesizing! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/151 "2005-09-02T23:49:50Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > > [@AFAIKnow](#): > > > > the cone heads in the white house wanted the niggers to suffer a bit and make cleanup worse before they did anything? > > ok, tomndebb, I think I need a refresher on forum rules. How is the above less offensive than my earlier remark? **AFAIKnow** ’s comment was a sarcastic depiction of what some third party might be saying or thinking. Your comment which prompted me to ask you to tone it down appeared, to me, to be aimed at your opponents in this thread. The issue is sufficiently passionate that a certain number of posts are going to test the limits. I am more interested in reducing direct personal conflict among posters in this thread (and all the other heated threads addressing the disaster) than I am in vetting every post for the exact point at which it may cross the (subjective) line. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/152 "2005-09-02T23:52:00Z")
> [@MadSam](#): > > Please cite your references on this one. > > While this is true in good part, there were plenty of NO citizens who said they gambled that they would NOT be hit head on by Hurricane Katrina and assumed not much destruction would happen if they did not leave. From what I have read, half of the Jewish population of New Orleans also voluntarily stayed and did not evacuate. Oh for Pete’s sake! Common sense is my cite; use your brain. The fact that there were people with the ability to leave who didn’t leave does not mean everyone had the ability to leave. If it makes your nit-picking little heart feel better, please feel free to alter my statement appropriately. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/153 "2005-09-02T23:55:52Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Your comment which prompted me to ask you to tone it down appeared, to me, to be aimed at your opponents in this thread. The issue is sufficiently passionate that a certain number of posts are going to test the limits. I am more interested in reducing direct personal conflict among posters in this thread (and all the other heated threads addressing the disaster) than I am in vetting every post for the exact point at which it may cross the (subjective) line. I see. Your concerns are well-placed. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/154 "2005-09-02T23:57:52Z")
The comment was actually an agreement (as in, yes there are plenty of people to blame)…but I see how you could take it the wrong way. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/155 "2005-09-03T00:06:18Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > Even if we give them the benefit of the doubt about how hard it was to get the trucks in, I fail to see what’s so difficult about doing air-drops of food, water and supplies to forestall the death and suffering that one would know was going to occur in the meantime. Given today’s progress, you’d think our trucks run on media coverage instead of gasoline. It simply doesn’t make sense. How do you air drop material in a flood situation? Seriously, describe how its done starting with the type of aircraft used. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/156 "2005-09-03T00:17:17Z")
Also, how do you drop material in where people are rioting and not exacerbate the rioting? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/157 "2005-09-03T00:18:16Z")
For those that weren’t with us during the very earliest Katrina discussions, I want to repost what the National Weather Service advisory said on the morning of 8-28 well before the storm even hit. It is taken from [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=332063&page=1&pp=40](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=332063&page=1&pp=40) and we discussed it at length. If a few Dopers can read a government website, understand the plain language, and figure out what the implications are, then I think it’s not too much too ask to ask the government at all levels to act and respond on what they wrote: Originally Posted by National Weather Service A MOST POWERFUL HURRICANE WITH UNPRECEDENTED STRENGTH…RIVALING THE INTENSITY OF HURRICANE CAMILLE OF 1969. MOST OF THE AREA WILL BE UNINHABITABLE FOR WEEKS…PERHAPS LONGER. AT LEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL…LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY DAMAGED OR DESTROYED. THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL. PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. ALL WOOD FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED. CONCRETE BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE…INCLUDING SOME WALL AND ROOF FAILURE. HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY…A FEW TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE. ALL WINDOWS WILL BLOW OUT. AIRBORNE DEBRIS WILL BE WIDESPREAD…AND MAY INCLUDE HEAVY ITEMS SUCH AS HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES AND EVEN LIGHT VEHICLES. SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES AND LIGHT TRUCKS WILL BE MOVED. THE BLOWN DEBRIS WILL CREATE ADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION. PERSONS…PETS…AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK. POWER OUTAGES WILL LAST FOR WEEKS…AS MOST POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS. THE VAST MAJORITY OF NATIVE TREES WILL BE SNAPPED OR UPROOTED. ONLY THE HEARTIEST WILL REMAIN STANDING…BUT BE TOTALLY DEFOLIATED. FEW CROPS WILL REMAIN. LIVESTOCK LEFT EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL BE KILLED. AN INLAND HURRICANE WIND WARNING IS ISSUED WHEN SUSTAINED WINDS NEAR HURRICANE FORCE…OR FREQUENT GUSTS AT OR ABOVE HURRICANE FORCE…ARE CERTAIN WITHIN THE NEXT 12 TO 24 HOURS. ONCE TROPICAL STORM AND HURRICANE FORCE WINDS ONSET…DO NOT VENTURE OUTSIDE! ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/158 "2005-09-03T00:24:31Z")
In this thread and several others there has been discussion of the racial makeup of New Orleans. To bring some facts to the situation, here’s a good website, which highlights the Lower 9th Ward which was one of the hardest hit areas as 98.3% black. [http://www.gnocdc.org/orleans/8/22/people.html](http://www.gnocdc.org/orleans/8/22/people.html) [http://www.gnocdc.org/maps/race/maps.cfm?nbhd\_code=n22&nbhd\_encoded=Lower%20Ninth%20Ward](http://www.gnocdc.org/maps/race/maps.cfm?nbhd_code=n22&nbhd_encoded=Lower%20Ninth%20Ward) ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/159 "2005-09-03T01:29:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How do you air drop material in a flood situation? Seriously, describe how its done starting with the type of aircraft used. Since he’s the one with actual experience in the matter, I’ll defer to **jrfranchi**. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749/160 "2005-09-03T01:35:22Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Also, how do you drop material in where people are rioting and not exacerbate the rioting? When it’s a choice between possibly exacerbating the rioting and simply doing nothing and letting people die, you take the chance. When you know you can’t make it into the area for two more days, then you can be **certain** doing nothing \*\*will \*\*exacerbate a number of problems, including the rioting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/q-how-many-poor-black-katrina-victims-does-it-take-to-equal-one-rich-9-11-victim/319749.md?page=9)