You’re killing me here.
I bet you never hear any of this on the tube.
You actually did first person research when you queried your friend. I like that. After reading your web search (also good) it rekindled a thought I had. I’ve been watching the local news and there are groups filling straight trucks and driving them down to New Orleans. I also passed a fleet of commercial buses that I suspect were doing the same thing. FEMA doesn’t have to spend a dime for secondary supplies because they are heading down in large quantities without any government involvement. If there isn’t a specific FEMA group coordinating this their ought to be because I expect private/corporate donations will greatly outstrip government warehouse material. This may already be a part of rescue scenarios, I don’t know anything about how FEMA operates.
Could 1000 trucks from 100 locations launch on a moments notice. Absolutely. I guarantee you if every city of 250,000 rented a truck and asked for donations it would be full in less than 1 hour. When the WTC fell Oklahoma City gathered blood donations and had it airlifted by private aircraft that night. That’s how fast it can happen. One hour after sunup it was delivered in NYC. Fire trucks were donated or lent by cities across the country. Distance is the only restriction here. What we are discussing is not the ability to cough up supplies, it’s the delivery. They Major was right when he said that any other city would get relief quicker. He’s just full of himself because of the reason why. New Orleans is stinking rich in river traffic but dirt poor in truck transport. And by that I’m referring to the surrounding area. It is a city by itself geographically. The heavy hitters would be Dallas/Fortworth, Oklahoma city, St Louis, Memphis, Louisville, Atlanta, Nashville…. etc… Those are the kind of cities with freight hubs that could serve New Orleans. I’m not sure if people would react BEFORE the hurricane because they won’t know where it’s going to strike or if the supplies are actually needed.
As for helicopters, they’re out there but I think that is the one asset that FEMA is going to have to pay for. I don’t see private charter companies donating a limited asset that they could lose. Owning an expensive helicopter does not mean it generates great wealth. It’s also something people aren’t going to want to donate to privately if it involves flying great distances (locally yes). The kind of helicopters that would be most useful are military units and I have no real knowledge of how they’re deployed or in what quantity. I would expect a significant number of Coast Guard copters along the coast so their should be something to draw from. I read news stories about them so I know they were used.
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The order refers to evacuation, not going back in with supplies.
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The order reaches only the bounderies of the parish of Orleans. I doubt FedEx had 1,000 trucks there.
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The example was simply to show that logistical problems arise. Even if they got the trucks: who buys the fuel? Who drives them? All problems that have to be solved.
Was the federal reponse perfect? Nope. Acceptable? Nope.
An easy problem for anyone to handle? NO. And that’s what I’m reacting to here.
We have a right to expect people in place to solve difficult problems; they should have done so here. But don’t characterize this as “not rocket science.” It IS rocket science. We hired people that should have been competent rocket scientists, and they weren’t. That’s fair criticism. But “not rocket science” isn’t.
Yes, the logistics of emergency aid are staggering. But that is why the authorities should have the details worked out in advance. This isn’t our first BBQ. I don’t see any reason why things like “who buys the fuel” can’t be part of a contingency plan already in place. Out here (in CA) we deal with earthquakes, for which there is ZERO warning. That’s a difficult problem. But we know there are hurricanes in the Southeast every year. We can’t predict exactly when or where, but we actually have a pretty good idea, and we’ve been preparing for and cleaning up from them for over 100 years. And, we generally know 2-3 days in advance when one is going to hit. Response should be immediate.
I’m still wondering, though, how the roles of the different agencies (local/state vs federal) are defined. For example, who ordered the evacuation of N.O.? Was it the mayor, the governor, or some federal authority? Who authorized the use of city sturctures (Superdome, Civic Center) as shelters and who decides what will and will not be at these shelters? Seems like the ball was dropped at all levels (local, state and federal).
I should have known you would find some way to make excuses, Rick.
Sorry, but the fact of the matter is, disaster recovery operations isn’t even in the same stratosphere as rocket science. I expect our elected officials to be smart enough, and take time enough, to sit down for however many days, weeks, months or years to brainstorm a fucking plan in the event of exactly such an incident as this. And in fact, I would be right, as lo and behold, here it is!
**[SOUTHEAST
STATE OF LOUISIANA
EMERGENCY OPERATIONS PLAN
SOUTHEAST LOUISIANA
HURRICANE EVACUATION
AND SHELTERING PLAN](http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf) **
**Tom ** you responded to my examples but missed my main point. I think that was my fault for the way I set up the post. I was trying to say that racism is rarely definitively attributable to a single act but is mainly about the convergence of forces that lead one group of people to be consistently disadvantaged. And that those forces range from simply being the most vulnerable to bad luck, to neglect, to (on occasion) outright malice. And that it’s usually impossible to dissect and label each force down to exact motivations of individual actors. It’s as if we were in a storm and you asked me to prove what caused each gust. I can’t. I can only point to the winds and say that overall they seem mostly seem to go in the same direction. They’re non-random. (Forgive me if you find this analogy in poor taste - it’s the one in my head for obvious reasons)
The only reason to prove motivation is to accuse or exonerate individuals. But that’s really not helpful and really not the point. Sometimes it’s not obvious that minorities and the underclass aren’t shouting “you’re neglecting us,” so much as “we’re being neglected!” The result is all that really matters. And I think most of the Congressional Black Caucus was rather careful not to accuse any individual or institutions of racism. Some chose not to bring race into it at all. But others were saying - look who is dying here - the poor, the aged, and minorities - and we have to change the forces at work.
I did give some examples of what I considered to be clear ways in which this group of people were being preferentially neglected. Again I’m trying to describe forces here. I’m pointing out winds that went in a certain direction, not trying to prove what caused them. The motivations are almost certainly multifactorial and are in any case not something we can really know - certainly not “prove” (which you nevertheless asked me to do in order to admit the possibility of racism).
Still I’ll take on some of your arguments because while I can’t prove that racial bias was the case in any individual action, I certainly think your contention that the most plausible explanation is that purely random forces are at work in each case is very strained.
THe racial bias here doesn’t involve a smoke-filled room. Nobody said “bah let New Orleans drown.” What more likely was relevant was that a poor majority black city (even with some white people and some corporate interest) just doesn’t have the visibility or political pull of other cities in the federal government. As a Bostonian benefiting from a $15 billion Big Dig which was purely to ease traffic congestion I have to admit I’m stunned that New Orleans didn’t get whatever it needed to allow it’s long term survival.
Nevertheless the people affected in most cities by that oversight would have been poor and black. So I don’t see how it supports your argument at all.
I’m not in the least interested in labelling some poor bastard racist.I’m interested in cumulative and systemic effects.
See I think the “racist conditions” are just an accumulation of the same type of ambiguous events that happened during the hurricane. If you went back and dissected most factors that led to those conditions (especially in recent decades) you couldn’t *prove * racist intent. But overall we find an effect where certain classes of the population are preferentially neglected, and are systematically disadvantaged. Even if no individual may have desired it. And if you read carefully you’ll notice that the OP was just as careful as most of the CBC not attribute racist “motivation” to anyone. He said this is what it is to be poor and black in this country. And he’s quite right.
Well, if your ire is directed at state officials, I understand your point. From your cite:
From Shayna’s link, it looks like most of the plan was followed, however one key piece was not. From the Assumptions
At the first two levels of evacuation, Voluntary and Recommended, the at-risk Parish is supposed to announce staging areas for people without transportation to gather and be helped out of town via public transportation. By the time it is mandatory, those staging areas become “last resort refuges”, like the Superdome.
I don’t know what, if any, public transportation was made available for evacuees, but I know for damn sure that I saw a flooded parking lot full of school buses on drudgereport. The buses I saw in that one picture could carry about 7,000 people to safety. That one thing, just 3 paragraphs in their 40+ page plan, caused there to be potentially tens of thousands of additional people caught in the storm.
I have not made a claim for “purely random forces.” I have simply noted that the evidence of racism does not seem to have the evidence behind it that cronyism (in picking FEMA directors), a starry-eyed view of privatization, and a need to spend money on other administration priorities in Iraq (reducing the funds spent on the CoE projects and FEMA) had.
The overall racism under which 150+ years of problems have accumulated are real and I do not dispute that. But there are particular issues regarding this storm that do not seem to be the result of racist decisions for which cries of racism seem to be more distracting than helpful.
Had you made this observation regarding Detroit or Cleveland, I might have agreed with you. The cities are very spread out with all the major financial players in those cities located either in enclaves that are geographically protected from disasters or are not even there. (Ford is in Dearborn, Chrysler-Daimler is mostly in Oakland County, Volkswagen is in Macomb County; only GM is still in Detroit, forted up in the Renaissance Center. All the major players from Cleveland are in the Eastern suburbs (or Texas).)
In contrast, the port of New Orleans is extremely important for oil transportation (which has some connection to the current administration) and all the financial assets are stuck in a loop of the Mississippi with only an extra foot of elevation over sea level. A disaster that hits New Orleans, regardless how poor and black its majority citizens are, has a direct impact on the nation’s economy–as a glance at your local gas station will reveal.
Actually, I named Seattle for a reason. It is still overwhelmingly white, and the Feds have done little to nothing to address the issue of handling a re-awakening of Mt. Ranier which would produce a Pinatubo-like disaster aimed directly at Seattle and Boeing (and, perhaps the Naval base at Bremerton) with Tacoma also sitting in harm’s way.
Only those trucks that were IN Louisiana, at best. The governor does not have imperium beyond her state’s borders.
I do, indeed, direct plenty of ire at state (and local) officials, so I’m glad we have an understanding. But I’m sure you knew that, seeing as how it was the state’s plan I linked to, and centered in giant, bold lettering.
I came in here to see if anybody had said this, and I’m glad JR did. The whole line of thought is offensive and ignorant. I had no idea that you turn into a rich white guy just by working in an office building! Who knew? I thought they had janitors and temps and interns and shit! I thought I read that people from a dozens of countries died at the Trade Center! Man, I even thought I spent Thursday night interviewing volunteer firefighters who lost friends that day! Thank goodness Sequent set me straight.
Sequent’s back, to set you straight.
Answer: The WTC Victims were 75.9% WHITE
This sets me straight how? How many of them were RICH? And did you ever conjure up a stat about how many white people live in southern Louisiana and Mississippi?
Yes, and I’ll say thanks to JRDelirious for what I consider one of the most thoughtful rebuttals here. I’ve had less time to respond recently, but I’ve been reading and appreciate almost everybody’s contributions.
Somehow, I’ve felt less compelled to keep arguing a point, which now is becoming, to the rest of the world, obvious. But for now, I’m just really sad, and ashamed, and trying, in the only way I can ($), to help.
“Race and class played a role in this?” Is that what you’ve decided your point was? A statement of the obvious would not have been so controversial.
And a special shout-out to Bricker in thanks for all his posts, even though we disagree. In case anyone didn’t see it, you should check out his home emergency kit in GQ. FEMA Director Bricker might not be a bad idea after all…
NY Times has provided a very good Demographic & elevation tool.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/national/2005_HURRICANEKATRINA_GRAPHIC/index.html
The Week in Review section notes that 28% of New Orleans residents live in poverty, and that 84% of those people are black. Racial and social issues? Sure. Whitey not giving a damn about poor black people? Not so much.
Agreed. I was only providing it as one more tool for people.
I was more interested in the Levee and 4 breaks than the demographic, but it looked pertinent to this thread.
Bricker: I pulled together a large number of facts and attacked logistics problem with real numbers: Would you be willing to concede that maybe we could have called for voluntary help and gotten supplies moving a lot quicker than we did?