# QBs throwing ball away
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146
**Category:** The Game Room
**Created:** [October 13, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146 "2013-10-13T17:15:29Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@hermann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hermann)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/1 "2013-10-13T17:15:29Z")
Why does the NFL make it so easy to just throw the ball away to avoid a sack? Seems kind of like cheating to me. I know there are certain rules, but isn’t it obvious when a QB throws anywhere just to avoid getting sacked?
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/2 "2013-10-13T18:18:21Z")
The QB can’t simply throw the ball away at any time. He has to throw within range of an eligible receiver, or be scrambling and outside of the tackle box. If he throws it away and neither one of those is the case, the QB will be penalized for intentional grounding.
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### Author:  [@hermann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hermann)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/3 "2013-10-13T18:57:22Z")
Ok, I can see the part about throwing within range of an eligible receiver, but not the part about scrambling and outside of the tackle box. Is there a reason for that part?
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### Author:  [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/4 "2013-10-13T19:19:24Z")
> [@hermann](#):
>
> Ok, I can see the part about throwing within range of an eligible receiver, but not the part about scrambling and outside of the tackle box. Is there a reason for that part?
IIRC it is to protect the QB. Scrambling is when they can be badly hurt and giving them the option of throwing the ball away (usually out of bounds) helps prevent injuries.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/5 "2013-10-13T19:34:27Z")
Why is it a problem? Yeah, there are fewer sacks this way than there would be without throwing the ball away, but is there some number of sacks that there “should” be, and we’re falling short?
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### Author:  [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/6 "2013-10-13T19:41:30Z")
What sucks is that the NFL rule makes high school passers think they can toss the ball away “outside the tackle box” and often their coaches think so, too.
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### Author:  [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/7 "2013-10-13T19:46:57Z")
> [@garygnu](#):
>
> What sucks is that the NFL rule makes high school passers think they can toss the ball away “outside the tackle box” and often their coaches think so, too.
There’s little excuse for the QB and none at all for the coach not knowing. This is not really an obscure rule. In any case once a coach’s team is called for this once in his career, he should know it and instruct his QBs in subsequent years.
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### Author:  [@hermann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hermann)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/8 "2013-10-13T19:54:01Z")
It’s not that it makes for fewer sacks, its that it just seems like an easy out of a bad situation.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/9 "2013-10-13T20:11:23Z")
Getting out of the pocket isn’t always easy. Once you are out of the pocket you probably have your own momentum as well as the defender’s that will factor into any impact. Sliding is likely not an option since you are probably scrambling more than sprinting.
As it is, intentional grounding is rarely called. When it is, it is because a passer is often ‘in the grasp’ and makes a lame toss. you rarely see IG called when a QB throws the ball out of bounds even if the ball goes nowhere near a defender.
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### Author:  [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/10 "2013-10-13T23:37:02Z")
> [@Ravenman](#):
>
> He has to throw within range of an eligible receiver, or be scrambling and outside of the tackle box.
Incorrect. A QB can, without fear of being called for intentional grounding, throw a ball a trillion miles away out of bounds, just as long as the ball has been thrown at or beyond the line of scrimmage.
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### Author:  [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/11 "2013-10-13T23:46:35Z")
> [@Munch](#):
>
> Incorrect. A QB can, without fear of being called for intentional grounding, throw a ball a trillion miles away out of bounds, just as long as the ball has been thrown at or beyond the line of scrimmage.
But only if they are outside the pocket.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/12 "2013-10-13T23:57:54Z")
What’s the rule on “spiking” the ball? Where is the line between a legal spike and illegal intentional grounding?
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### Author:  [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)
#### Post date: [October 14, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/13 "2013-10-14T00:04:42Z")
It’s also not just avoiding a sack, it’s avoiding lost yardage. If it’s first and ten and the defense pushes the QB and his line back 8 yards and he gets sacked it’s now 2nd and 18. If he throws it away it’s 2nd and 10.
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### Author:  [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)
#### Post date: [October 14, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/14 "2013-10-14T00:25:36Z")
> [@garygnu](#):
>
> What sucks is that the NFL rule makes high school passers think they can toss the ball away “outside the tackle box” and often their coaches think so, too.
Note that it’s also the NCAA rule as well - and has been since at least 2006 (that’s as far back as my rules archive goes).
Also, even if the coaches know the rules, chances are that the fans don’t - a lesson learned as a high school PA announcer for over 20 years. (Example: in the NFL and college, the kicking team can catch an onside kick before it touches the ground if it goes at least 10 yards; in high school, it has to touch the ground first. The home team caught one in the air; the officials correctly gave the ball to the receiving team. Quite a few people in the crowd on the home team’s side let the officials have it in no uncertain terms - at least until I quieted the loudest one down by _showing him in the rulebook_ where the rule was different.)
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> What’s the rule on “spiking” the ball? Where is the line between a legal spike and illegal intentional grounding?
The spike has to be pretty much immediate - I think the QB is allowed one step back. It’s a judgment call, but in most cases it’s obvious. (And yes, there have been times when teams have faked a spike - but if the QB fakes a spike and then spikes it, it’s intentional grounding.)
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [October 14, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/15 "2013-10-14T00:52:02Z")
> [@Munch](#):
>
> Incorrect. A QB can, without fear of being called for intentional grounding, throw a ball a trillion miles away out of bounds, just as long as the ball has been thrown at or beyond the line of scrimmage.
> [@NFL rule book](#):
>
> Article 1
> Definition. It is a foul for intentional grounding if a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion. A realistic chance of completion is defined as a pass that lands in the direction and the vicinity of an originally eligible receiver.
>
> Item 1: Passer or Ball Outside Tackle Position. Intentional grounding will not be called when a passer, who is outside, or has been outside, the tackle position throws a forward pass that lands at or beyond the line of scrimmage, even if no offensive player(s) have a realistic chance to catch the ball (including when the ball lands out of bounds over the sideline or endline). If a loose ball leaves the area bordered by the tackles, this area no longer exists; if the ball is recovered, all intentional grounding rules apply as if the passer is outside this area
I still think I’m right.
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### Author:  [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)
#### Post date: [October 14, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/16 "2013-10-14T14:16:06Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#):
>
> The spike has to be pretty much immediate - I think the QB is allowed one step back. It’s a judgment call, but in most cases it’s obvious. (And yes, there have been times when teams have faked a spike - but if the QB fakes a spike and then spikes it, it’s intentional grounding.)
I remember that happening a couple years back after Caleb Hanie replaced Cutler against the Raiders. He went to fake spike it, realized no one else on the offense was expecting a fake spike, and then actually spiked it. He got the penalty which included a ten second run-off, and lost the game.
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [October 14, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/17 "2013-10-14T14:24:04Z")
I don’t like the spike rule. Didn’t it used to be that the QB had to throw the ball in the direction of an eligible receiver? What was wrong with that?
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### Author:  [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)
#### Post date: [October 14, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/18 "2013-10-14T15:50:24Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#):
>
> I don’t like the spike rule. Didn’t it used to be that the QB had to throw the ball in the direction of an eligible receiver? What was wrong with that?
I don’t think anything was wrong with that, but it’s a quick way to stop the clock at the cost of a down. It makes for more exciting games (IMHO) which is the purpose of many of the rules. This is, after all, entertainment.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)
#### Post date: [October 14, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/19 "2013-10-14T16:41:44Z")
> [@Ravenman](#):
>
> I still think I’m right.
Technically, you might well be, but I am pretty certain no ref is ever going to call an actual pass out of bounds as IG unless they are winging sideways out of bounds when they realize their scramble is going to lose yardage. It takes a lot to get an IG call.
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### Author:  [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)
#### Post date: [October 14, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qbs-throwing-ball-away/671146/20 "2013-10-14T16:51:02Z")
> [@hermann](#):
>
> It’s not that it makes for fewer sacks, its that it just seems like an easy out of a bad situation.
The loss of down isn’t inconsequential. It’s apporpriate and pretty significant when it happens on 3rd down.
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