# Qibla quibble **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [October 17, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909 "2015-10-17T15:57:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Grigalem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@Grigalem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grigalem)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/1 "2015-10-17T15:57:20Z")
Being told that benign religious practices are wacky is not what I needed for breakfast fare. The qibla (and the Jewish equivalent - mizrah [Mizrah - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrah)) - are not “wacky”. And the Jewish dietary laws are clearly laid out in Hebrew Scriptures. Eat domestic cud-chewing animals with split hooves and fish with fins and scales. This is not wacky. Sacred underwear is wacky. Letting people die because you won’t take them to a doctor is wacky. Murdering your children with blunt-force trauma to force them to confess their “sins” is wacky. The Kaaba is real. The remnants of the Temple in Jerusalem are real. Praying while facing them is a form of alignment. But Aquinas’s angels dancing on the head of a pin is speculation on things that cannot be known - which makes them somewhat wacky, methinks. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/2 "2015-10-17T16:24:21Z")
[Column in question](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2360/how-do-muslims-know-which-way-to-face-when-praying) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/3 "2015-10-17T16:25:38Z")
> [@Grigalem](#): > > Being told that benign religious practices are wacky is not what I needed for breakfast fare. The qibla (and the Jewish equivalent - mizrah [Mizrah - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrah)) - are not “wacky”. And the Jewish dietary laws are clearly laid out in Hebrew Scriptures. Eat domestic cud-chewing animals with split hooves and fish with fins and scales. This is not wacky. > > Sacred underwear is wacky. Letting people die because you won’t take them to a doctor is wacky. Murdering your children with blunt-force trauma to force them to confess their “sins” is wacky. > > The Kaaba is real. The remnants of the Temple in Jerusalem are real. Praying while facing them is a form of alignment. But Aquinas’s angels dancing on the head of a pin is speculation on things that cannot be known - which makes them somewhat wacky, methinks. Cecil said it’s no more wacky that those other practices you just called wacky while claiming yours is real. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/4 "2015-10-17T16:48:25Z")
Clearly, we’re going to need to establish a uniform measurement of wackiness in order to avoid such issues in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/5 "2015-10-17T17:30:41Z")
I say we call the unit of measurement the “palin”. Or the “cruz”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/6 "2015-10-17T18:02:42Z")
OK, I can see how refusing medical aid could be called wacky. But how is wearing “sacred underwear” (I assume that you’re referring to the temple garb worn by LDS) any wackier than any other benign religious practice? > [@](#): > > And the Jewish dietary laws are clearly laid out in Hebrew Scriptures. Eat domestic cud-chewing animals with split hooves and fish with fins and scales. This is not wacky. OK, so that part is laid out pretty clearly. Now tell me where it’s clearly laid out not to put cheese on a chicken sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/7 "2015-10-17T19:03:59Z")
Seems to me that all religious practices could be described as wacky. In all other contexts we’d term such things superstitions (don’t walk under ladders, touch wood for luck, etc). But attach the name of religion to something and suddenly it’s supposed to be different, ‘sacred’. In reality religion and superstition are both cut from the same cloth, the imagination of human beings. In the end though where I see wackiness others see the work of a god. And never the twain shall meet. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/8 "2015-10-18T02:41:19Z")
> [@Grigalem](#): > > …Aquinas’s angels dancing on the head of a pin is… …n urban myth. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/9 "2015-10-20T13:56:58Z")
Since this seems to be the qibla article thread (having put to bed OP’s “ **their** beliefs are silly but **mine** are perfectly valid”), let me ask. How does the qibla work from orbit? If an observant Muslim gets a mission assignment on ISS, or (in the more distant future) at Moonbase 1, or an interstellar mission, how would that work? Thinking about it, it seems that the qibla for the longer-range assignments is more or less “point at the Earth”. But in orbit? The qibla would change in real time. If prayers lasted more than a few seconds, you’d have to constantly shift your prayer mat. (Assuming you’re obligated to keep pointing at Mecca, rather than having satisfied the requirement by starting your prayers pointed at Mecca.) The rituals of religion are difficult to reconcile with the changing understanding and relationship with the universe. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/10 "2015-10-20T14:26:12Z")
There have been one or two Muslim astronauts, and the answer is that you make the best-faith effort you can, and God understands. This probably consists of pointing yourself in the roughly correct direction at the start, and vaguely downwards. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/11 "2015-10-20T14:49:02Z")
> [@Grigalem](#): > > Praying while facing them is a form of alignment. Neutral Good, or Lawful Evil? ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/12 "2015-10-20T15:28:29Z")
Indeed, would Nibbler quibble about Qibla ? ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/13 "2015-10-20T17:12:03Z")
I’ve heard the story (probably apocryphal) that an air force crew member, wanting to know the Qibla programmed it in to the nav computer to get a bearing. Unfortunately it was fed to the autopilot and the plane banked over and started heading for Mecca. I guess that made prayer easier. Probably for many others in the airspace too. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/14 "2015-10-20T18:02:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There have been one or two Muslim astronauts, and the answer is that you make the best-faith effort you can, and God understands. This probably consists of pointing yourself in the roughly correct direction at the start, and vaguely downwards. I’m not a religious person, but it would seem to me that in most things it should be more about ones thoughts and beliefs about what one is doing than what is physically done to show one’s faith. If you honestly believe that you’re facing Mecca, and haven’t just arbitrarily picked a direction, that should be enough for any reasonable deity. In reality, very few people are actually facing Mecca. They are facing in a direction that when continued over Earth’s surface will be in the vicinity of Mecca, but the actual direction generally just goes out into space. Only those within a few hundred miles might actually be facing the Kabaa unless they’re looking somewhat towards the ground. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/15 "2015-10-20T18:17:44Z")
I came across a student praying in a lounge on day here on the East Coast in the US. I waited until he was finished and asked if he was Muslim and praying towards Mecca as I didn’t wish to upset him but he was facing west. He showed me a app on his smart phone that clearly pointed which direction he should face. I’m not sure what the program was but it was clearly wrong due west couldn’t not be correct. He said the same thing that others have mentioned. It was the intention that counted. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/16 "2015-10-21T12:47:06Z")
> [@Grigalem](#): > > Eat domestic cud-chewing animals with split hooves and fish with fins and scales. This is not wacky. Sooooo, eating these animals is ok? Or bad? Either way, it’s pretty wacky worrying about it considering its freakin’ 2015… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![GURUPERF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7c8e57/32.png) [@GURUPERF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GURUPERF)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/17 "2015-10-21T15:55:26Z")
So, if I’ve calculated correctly, from the Statue of Liberty, the correct direction to face would pass directly through the World trade Center. Or where it used to be. I’m just sayin’ ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/18 "2015-10-21T17:21:20Z")
I used to think that religious requirements for various head coverings was whacky. I still do, but now I understand. Generations of parents in the desert had finally had it up to here (here being somewhere around hat level) trying to get their kids to wear hats on sunny days to avoid heatstroke and sunburn. So the religious types in charge got involved and made it a law. “So there, kids, now you HAVE to wear a hat, or your soul will burn forever. If it were up to me, you could go out and get heatstroke every day. Now put on your hat.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Brother\_1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_brother_1/32/3513_2.png) [@Little\_Brother\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Brother_1)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/19 "2015-10-21T17:44:30Z")
Ah, Barnacle, but consider the practical wisdom expressed in “Never Say No” from “The Fantasticks”. Here’s a link to the lyrics-- there are numerous YouTube videos, but the couple I checked were too amateurish to recommend: [http://www.thebroadwaymusicals.com/lyrics/fantasticksthe/neversayno.htm](http://www.thebroadwaymusicals.com/lyrics/fantasticksthe/neversayno.htm) ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909/20 "2015-10-21T20:50:45Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > I say we call the unit of measurement the “palin”. Or the “cruz”. But we would probably want a unit that allows us to do day to day measurements of wackiness without having to say, “times ten to the minus” nearly so often. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qibla-quibble/734909.md?page=2)